I don't talk to fundies about morality
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08-09-2016, 12:16 AM
I don't talk to fundies about morality
all to often when i condemn Christianity or the bible some ignorant fundamentalist fucktard decides to play the morality game i think most know what i'm talking about

Atheist - Christianity is x

Fundie-on what moral authority blah blah blah

Two things you should note one whenever a fundie pulls this it's a deflection tactic to not have to talk about how Christian morality and it's failings. And two the fundie don't care about the answer in his mind no matter what you present it's already wrong. And there far to lazy and incurious to look things up themselves so they force you to spoon feed them what they don't care about.

Now i have written this before elsewhere and fundies come back with (but you demand evidence for god before you will except claims so we demand a moral standard before can attack Christianity ) This is of course yet another example of the above avoid talking about Christianity and the bibles failings by a weak deflection move and then let the time wasting begin.

At this point it really is not worth it i'm not going to waste time justifying secular morality thousands have done so .Same as i wont justify evolution to a creation it's justified six ways from Sunday.It's not my job to educate them it's there job to have there shit together before criticizing me.

If there not going to read up on secular ethics or meta-ethics aside something stupid like saying "your morals are all subjective " or "it's just nihilism or "if it's not based on duties then it based on nothing"Then i'm not interested in arguing with them nor do i think i have burden to them in there ignorant state.

In contrast i have read up on christian apologetics and know what i'm talking about. I don't need to be taught i'm here to debate.And armed with this understanding hold there feet to the fire.

thoughts ?

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08-09-2016, 06:50 AM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
(08-09-2016 12:16 AM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  all to often when i condemn Christianity or the bible some ignorant fundamentalist fucktard decides to play the morality game i think most know what i'm talking about

Atheist - Christianity is x

Fundie-on what moral authority blah blah blah

Two things you should note one whenever a fundie pulls this it's a deflection tactic to not have to talk about how Christian morality and it's failings. And two the fundie don't care about the answer in his mind no matter what you present it's already wrong. And there far to lazy and incurious to look things up themselves so they force you to spoon feed them what they don't care about.

Now i have written this before elsewhere and fundies come back with (but you demand evidence for god before you will except claims so we demand a moral standard before can attack Christianity ) This is of course yet another example of the above avoid talking about Christianity and the bibles failings by a weak deflection move and then let the time wasting begin.

At this point it really is not worth it i'm not going to waste time justifying secular morality thousands have done so .Same as i wont justify evolution to a creation it's justified six ways from Sunday.It's not my job to educate them it's there job to have there shit together before criticizing me.

If there not going to read up on secular ethics or meta-ethics aside something stupid like saying "your morals are all subjective " or "it's just nihilism or "if it's not based on duties then it based on nothing"Then i'm not interested in arguing with them nor do i think i have burden to them in there ignorant state.

In contrast i have read up on christian apologetics and know what i'm talking about. I don't need to be taught i'm here to debate.And armed with this understanding hold there feet to the fire.

thoughts ?

Yeah, there's no use trying to discuss objective morality with someone who rejects the concept of objectivity to start with. Same with discussing it with most atheists. It takes far to long to explain the background premises and they really aren't interested in hearing it anyway. Like you said, they just want to take the focus off their beliefs and put it on yours. I don't do it anymore either unless I think the person is somewhat rational.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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08-09-2016, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 08-09-2016 02:42 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
I hate debating morality with Xians because their concept of morality is flawed from the start and even if you were to agree their God's morality is objective that would mean he's also bound to it but he's an all powerful being that can do anything, even break his own rules of morality by lying and killing so the objective moral laws of the universe doesn't apply to him which makes it subjective. If he breaks his own universal law than he has sinned and he can't sin right?

I always have to remind a Xian who tells me a murder in my own family shouldn't matter to me, since I can't tell right from wrong, that I can still think and reason and feel. I'm not a robot. Yes subjectively I can say murder is wrong, for anyone. It doesn't have to be my family either. It's like they forget we are human. We feel pain like grief and sadness, we feel love and connection to others which is enough reason for us not to hurt others by killing them or stealing from them, etc.

When did they become the sole owners of love and grief? I knew I was atheist before I ever experienced a major death in my personal life and no I didn't seek God for answers or to ease the pain, I had to do it on my own and yes the pain persists because of the love I feel for them. I can still feel, that's why I can still be moral, that is why I reject religion...it's amazing how they don't grasp this very simple concept.

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08-09-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
(08-09-2016 06:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 12:16 AM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  all to often when i condemn Christianity or the bible some ignorant fundamentalist fucktard decides to play the morality game i think most know what i'm talking about

Atheist - Christianity is x

Fundie-on what moral authority blah blah blah

Two things you should note one whenever a fundie pulls this it's a deflection tactic to not have to talk about how Christian morality and it's failings. And two the fundie don't care about the answer in his mind no matter what you present it's already wrong. And there far to lazy and incurious to look things up themselves so they force you to spoon feed them what they don't care about.

Now i have written this before elsewhere and fundies come back with (but you demand evidence for god before you will except claims so we demand a moral standard before can attack Christianity ) This is of course yet another example of the above avoid talking about Christianity and the bibles failings by a weak deflection move and then let the time wasting begin.

At this point it really is not worth it i'm not going to waste time justifying secular morality thousands have done so .Same as i wont justify evolution to a creation it's justified six ways from Sunday.It's not my job to educate them it's there job to have there shit together before criticizing me.

If there not going to read up on secular ethics or meta-ethics aside something stupid like saying "your morals are all subjective " or "it's just nihilism or "if it's not based on duties then it based on nothing"Then i'm not interested in arguing with them nor do i think i have burden to them in there ignorant state.

In contrast i have read up on christian apologetics and know what i'm talking about. I don't need to be taught i'm here to debate.And armed with this understanding hold there feet to the fire.

thoughts ?

Yeah, there's no use trying to discuss objective morality with someone who rejects the concept of objectivity to start with. Same with discussing it with most atheists. It takes far to long to explain the background premises and they really aren't interested in hearing it anyway. Like you said, they just want to take the focus off their beliefs and put it on yours. I don't do it anymore either unless I think the person is somewhat rational.


one common retort from the charge of subjectivity is saying good is gods essential nature this is of course stupid as has been pointed out what is it about gods nature that makes it good?and what even makes a nature that is good essential? in the end there retorts fail

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08-09-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
But Fundies put the "fun" in fundamentalism. (I admit I've been sitting on that all day and had to post it.)

I'll take your street preacher from the other thread and trade you an Evangelical Youth Minister from Facebook back home. You trade one fundie for another, but this one comes with large doses of misogyny and complaints about how he's too Godly for women to handle. Laugh out load

Need to think of a witty signature.
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08-09-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
At least it's easy to communicate with a fundamentalist once you have learned the rules they are applying.

Trying to comprehend the words of someone who has 'strayed from the path' can be difficult due to definitional ambiguities ... unless one knows what rules are being broken and there is consistency in the breaking of those rules.

Drinking Beverage

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08-09-2016, 09:31 PM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
(08-09-2016 08:00 PM)DLJ Wrote:  At least it's easy to communicate with a fundamentalist once you have learned the rules they are applying.

Trying to comprehend the words of someone who has 'strayed from the path' can be difficult due to definitional ambiguities ... unless one knows what rules are being broken and there is consistency in the breaking of those rules.

Drinking Beverage

Easy but futile it's like arguing with a brick wall a brick wall with an agenda founded on apologetic sophistry

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09-09-2016, 03:48 AM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
(08-09-2016 12:16 AM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  all to often when i condemn Christianity or the bible some ignorant fundamentalist fucktard decides to play the morality game i think most know what i'm talking about

Atheist - Christianity is x

Fundie-on what moral authority blah blah blah

Two things you should note one whenever a fundie pulls this it's a deflection tactic to not have to talk about how Christian morality and it's failings. And two the fundie don't care about the answer in his mind no matter what you present it's already wrong. And there far to lazy and incurious to look things up themselves so they force you to spoon feed them what they don't care about.

Now i have written this before elsewhere and fundies come back with (but you demand evidence for god before you will except claims so we demand a moral standard before can attack Christianity ) This is of course yet another example of the above avoid talking about Christianity and the bibles failings by a weak deflection move and then let the time wasting begin.

At this point it really is not worth it i'm not going to waste time justifying secular morality thousands have done so .Same as i wont justify evolution to a creation it's justified six ways from Sunday.It's not my job to educate them it's there job to have there shit together before criticizing me.

If there not going to read up on secular ethics or meta-ethics aside something stupid like saying "your morals are all subjective " or "it's just nihilism or "if it's not based on duties then it based on nothing"Then i'm not interested in arguing with them nor do i think i have burden to them in there ignorant state.

In contrast i have read up on christian apologetics and know what i'm talking about. I don't need to be taught i'm here to debate.And armed with this understanding hold there feet to the fire.

thoughts ?

Hi Ordo,

IMHO if morality is anything it is thinking for yourself about what is right and wrong. Christians seem to think that morality is following rules decreed by a higher power.

As I see it, the question of moral freedom and theism is bound up in the rule following issue.

D.
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09-09-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: I don't talk to fundies about morality
(08-09-2016 07:07 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  But Fundies put the "fun" in fundamentalism. (I admit I've been sitting on that all day and had to post it.)

I'll take your street preacher from the other thread and trade you an Evangelical Youth Minister from Facebook back home. You trade one fundie for another, but this one comes with large doses of misogyny and complaints about how he's too Godly for women to handle. Laugh out load

Regarding "Fundamentalism"

I always knew they were mental -- but could never quite see what's fun about it..


Tongue

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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