I don't understand.
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11-11-2011, 11:47 PM
I don't understand.
All in all, the ultimate question for us philosophers is "where did we come from"?
It doesn't matter who we are or who we call ourselves, this is all that matters. Even though the probability that the creationists are right are slim, the possibility still exists.

What are your most convincing reasons that God does NOT exist? Without a shadow of a doubt what do people believe that convinces them this?

Who saids that God shares any similarities with us about kindness, love? Why can't he let starving children be born, starve, and die in third world countries(i think all this is horrible) or allow people who have cancer to die? All i care is if there is a force yet known to us that spawned the physical world. If you conclude that the bible is false, you must conclude that the people who wrote the bible is wrong. But God didnt write the bible. We did.
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12-11-2011, 12:36 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(11-11-2011 11:47 PM)PeterK Wrote:  All in all, the ultimate question for us philosophers is "where did we come from"?
It doesn't matter who we are or who we call ourselves, this is all that matters. Even though the probability that the creationists are right are slim, the possibility still exists.

What are your most convincing reasons that God does NOT exist? Without a shadow of a doubt what do people believe that convinces them this?

There are a lot of discussion about this. Ultimately there is no proof that god does exist. We now know through scientific advancement that it's possible that the universe, and humanity by extension, could have come into existence without any supernatural force. This being the case, and without any evidence of a supernatural god, then god is a superfluous idea.

No one can claim to know that there is no god, because that would require omniscience and omnipresence- you would need to know everything everywhere to know there was no god anywhere at any time. I would say that while I do not know there is no god, there is no evidence to cause me to believe that there is a god. I am not a theist, I am a non-theist, I am an atheist.

(11-11-2011 11:47 PM)PeterK Wrote:  Who saids that God shares any similarities with us about kindness, love? Why can't he let starving children be born, starve, and die in third world countries(i think all this is horrible) or allow people who have cancer to die? All i care is if there is a force yet known to us that spawned the physical world. If you conclude that the bible is false, you must conclude that the people who wrote the bible is wrong. But God didnt write the bible. We did.

What you are suggesting is a form of deism. Possible? Ok, sure- but then this god who doesn't intervene and doesn't care doesn't demand our attention or call for our worship. Why waste time believing in a superfluous god who doesn't care? I'm sure there are other reasons now to follow deism, but I'm not going to try to address it any further.

I really urge you to check out some videos that might explain some of these ideas a bit better, or at least get you pointed in the right direction for addressing these questions you have. Watch these videos by Evid3nc3 on YouTube, start to finish for the full context. They are interesting and very introductory but well-addressed.
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12-11-2011, 12:37 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(11-11-2011 11:47 PM)PeterK Wrote:  What are your most convincing reasons that God does NOT exist? Without a shadow of a doubt what do people believe that convinces them this?

Some may give you their ideas about what convinces them that god does not exist but the kicker in your question is where you say, "Without a shadow of a doubt". I think there is no thinking atheist who would use the words without or beyond a shadow of a doubt. Theists use terms such as that based on the necessity of absoluteness of faith profession, but reasonable people cannot. There are some points that are so improbable you can get pretty close, but the "doubt" is a friend to all thinking people. From doubt comes skepticism and questioning. Doubt is integral to reason.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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12-11-2011, 12:47 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(11-11-2011 11:47 PM)PeterK Wrote:  What are your most convincing reasons that God does NOT exist?

I couldn't give less of a shit whether god exists or not, I got more immediate concerns. I always got more immediate concerns. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-11-2011, 12:48 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2011 12:53 AM by PeterK.)
RE: I don't understand.
This is also what i believe. Since we are pretty much on the same page about the origins of the universe, that part is pretty much solved.

I believe that even if God does not exist. There is a place for deism because yes.. it does control the masses, yes it is and most likely wrong. But i have two reasons why it should exist.

1. Though the ideal world should be full of secular love, it is not. Some people share a connection with "God" to give themselves a sense of peace. If one is a murderer, and can repent and be forgiven he may change. If he cannot repent, he is doomed and so there is one less incentive for him not to continue. [illogical but this is a trend at least 1/800 people have as psychopaths]. Some people are manically depressed, deism provides a spiritual venting that produces a measurable/physical benefit. Deism has been an outlet for many unsettling hearts.

2. It produces a sense of morality. It defines for those of us who don't understand ethics what a person should be. If it was to be proven today that there is no hell. The world would go into a guiltless, self-indulging frenzy. This is even understandable because it is biologically advantageous to do what is best for you and the people around you and to compete with those who invade your niche regardless of ethics. This does not further our society, it will cripple it. Scientists even are very ambitious, I know that if the difference between getting a nobel prize and coming second place is simply sabotaging my opponents fragile research that there may be a chance i might if God will not judge me and i was very religious.
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12-11-2011, 12:57 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(12-11-2011 12:48 AM)PeterK Wrote:  This is also what i believe. Since we are pretty much on the same page about the origins of the universe, that part is pretty much solved.

I believe that even if God does not exist. There is a place for deism because yes.. it does control the masses, yes it is and most likely wrong.

Smells Machiavellian to me.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-11-2011, 12:57 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2011 01:02 AM by PeterK.)
RE: I don't understand.
(12-11-2011 12:37 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(11-11-2011 11:47 PM)PeterK Wrote:  What are your most convincing reasons that God does NOT exist? Without a shadow of a doubt what do people believe that convinces them this?

...you say, "Without a shadow of a doubt".... Theists use terms such as that based on the necessity of absoluteness of faith profession, but reasonable people cannot.

Agreed.
(12-11-2011 12:57 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Smells Machiavellian to me.

It might be, I've only read parts of "the prince" Machiavelli however is a very reasonable man. From what i know about him from "The Prince", i am very flattered to have given any impression that reminds you of him. His pragmatic view of the world earned him a place next to the Prince, and so I respect him very much.
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12-11-2011, 01:18 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(12-11-2011 12:47 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-11-2011 11:47 PM)PeterK Wrote:  What are your most convincing reasons that God does NOT exist?

I couldn't give less of a shit whether god exists or not, I got more immediate concerns. I always got more immediate concerns. Wink

You're an apatheist? cool!

My wife questions why I sit around discussing the existence of god at all. I ask myself the same question at times. I think I'll stop.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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12-11-2011, 01:53 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(12-11-2011 12:57 AM)PeterK Wrote:  
(12-11-2011 12:57 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Smells Machiavellian to me.

It might be, I've only read parts of "the prince" Machiavelli however is a very reasonable man. From what i know about him from "The Prince", i am very flattered to have given any impression that reminds you of him. His pragmatic view of the world earned him a place next to the Prince, and so I respect him very much.

Look for better role models.

(12-11-2011 01:18 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  You're an apatheist?

I like that a lot, I'm gonna steal it. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-11-2011, 02:18 AM
RE: I don't understand.
(12-11-2011 01:53 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Look for better role models.

Why is that?
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