I don't understand closet atheism.
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23-04-2012, 12:44 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
Are you talking about people who have to fake being religious or just anyone?

I couldn't keep up faking being religious if I tried. Dunno if it would make me laugh or cry, lol. But that's way too difficult to fake.

My family on my dad's side has been closet atheist for likely centuries. It's hard to tell because parents wouldn't even tell their kids. You became an outcast for it. But no one went to church. My mom was the only atheist in her family as far as I can tell. She told no one. To me it's normal to just not engage in talks about religion unless I am with someone who feels like me. I have told some select close friends who are religious because it kept coming up. We agreed to just leave it be. I am comfortable with that.

I can't imagine divorcing over religion, it's just not that important to me. I don't care what people believe. I guess if I had a spouse who would keep on pressuring me I would get sick of that quickly. But that holds true with any pressure, I hate being told what to do.

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23-04-2012, 12:53 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 12:26 PM)reverendjeremiah Wrote:  How can you expect people to treat you nice when they believe you will be burning in hell for all eternity?
Mighty Christ-y there, huh? Consider
Seems if I knew someone would be burning in hell for all eternity, I'd try to be kind of nice to them while I could.

Theists. Dodgy

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23-04-2012, 12:55 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 12:53 PM)kim Wrote:  
(23-04-2012 12:26 PM)reverendjeremiah Wrote:  How can you expect people to treat you nice when they believe you will be burning in hell for all eternity?
Mighty Christ-y there, huh? Consider
Seems if I knew someone would be burning in hell for all eternity, I'd try to be kind of nice to them while I could.

Theists. Dodgy
*cough*

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23-04-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-04-2012 12:53 PM)kim Wrote:  Mighty Christ-y there, huh? Consider
Seems if I knew someone would be burning in hell for all eternity, I'd try to be kind of nice to them while I could.

Theists. Dodgy
*cough*

Well there ARE exceptions to the rule...

besides, we know you're not a theist anyway. You're just still in the closet!
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23-04-2012, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2012 01:43 PM by germanyt.)
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 12:30 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Feel free to ask atheists living in the US bible belt for more information on this.
I live in the bible belt.
(23-04-2012 12:44 PM)Dom Wrote:  Are you talking about people who have to fake being religious or just anyone?

I couldn't keep up faking being religious if I tried. Dunno if it would make me laugh or cry, lol. But that's way too difficult to fake.

My family on my dad's side has been closet atheist for likely centuries. It's hard to tell because parents wouldn't even tell their kids. You became an outcast for it. But no one went to church. My mom was the only atheist in her family as far as I can tell. She told no one. To me it's normal to just not engage in talks about religion unless I am with someone who feels like me. I have told some select close friends who are religious because it kept coming up. We agreed to just leave it be. I am comfortable with that.

I can't imagine divorcing over religion, it's just not that important to me. I don't care what people believe. I guess if I had a spouse who would keep on pressuring me I would get sick of that quickly. But that holds true with any pressure, I hate being told what to do.
I just see a lot of atheist claim to be in the closet because of what family or friends will think. Including spouses. To begin with, no one who gets married should be unaware of the faith of their fiance. For those that do or lose faith while married I say come out with it. Don't continue going to church or raising your kids as theists if you really don't believe it just for the sake of keeping the family together. I'd rather be divorced and have every other weekend custody than live a lie. If you come out and the ones you were afraid of upseting are mad or hate you for it then to hell with them (no pun). They weren't worth having as friends or family to begin with.

I happen to have an unusual ability to disconnect myself from those I'm close to if I feel I need to.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 10:17 AM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 10:47 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(23-04-2012 10:42 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Did you not listen to the podcast on this subject from The Thinking Atheist?

How could you possibly continue to hold this stance once you've listened to those stories? I suppose you could, but you'd have to pretty lacking the empathy department.

It's always easy to judge when you are in a better situation. Yes, you have family too, but you said it yourself that you don't give 2 shits about what they think. That's not the case for everyone.

I almost lost my marriage due to coming out (I have to the important people in my life, yet I am reserved about the subject unless in discourse with fellow non-believers or accepting believers like KingsChosen). I was very luckily able to argue with reason that dissolving a marriage over something we don't agree on is ridiculous. This is the type of hold religion has on people though. They would consider something like divorce because of a difference of world-view.

While I think my situation was a very tough one as I was religious even through marriage, I truly feel bad for people in worse situations. Imagine being a priest your entire life only to come to the conclusion that you're an Atheist... Imagine the prospect of your livelihood being destroyed by coming out. Imagine the loss of friends and family from it. That could be absolutely devastating.

For you to sit there and act like "It ain't no thang pimp" is quite arrogant. You are a man of reason are you not? Please apply that reason to this subject.
Well I have never listened to a podcast.

And I would happily divorce my wife and never speak to my family again if they took a hardline position against my atheism. Regardless of how good or bad the relationship was prior to them knowing it would all dissolve instantly and I would be indifferent to them. I don't need the approval or love of my family to make me feel like a human being. There are a lot of people in the world and new friends and family can be found almost anywhere.
Then you and I have a very different philosophical outlook on Love. In my opinion, your statement here is far worse than someone who has been brought up to be a believer contemplating divorce because their spouse suddenly became an unbeliever. I understand how much of an in-your-face slap it can be when someone you've dated and lived with for years suddenly becomes a non-believer AFTER you get married and have children. Religion isn't a small issue to someone that has been indoctrinated.

To me, my wife and family are worth fighting for. To me, it is flat out silly to divorce her because she was super upset about my "revelation". This is NOT what she bargained for when even dating me as I was right there with her in belief. I love her enough to understand that. And had I not fought to keep this marriage together, I wouldn't be a happy husband and father right now expecting yet another child in a few weeks.

If none of what I said is worth fighting for to you, then I'm right in my assumption that you lack empathy and I'd even say a passion for love. To be blunt, if I were a female, I wouldn't want to be in a committed relationship with you.

Here are my assumptions about you:

1) You're not married
2) You're young
3) You don't have kids
4) You probably don't even think about any of the above

I might be wrong, but that's how you come across

(23-04-2012 12:01 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(23-04-2012 11:54 AM)kineo Wrote:  In my case, I'll be honest but I don't need to go around telling everyone when it's not an issue.
But that isn't 'closet' atheism. Actively keeping it a secret by acting otherwise or by lying is what I consider in the closet. And I can't imagine why anyone would oppress themselves for the sake of their family. If they hate you for being atheist or gay or pagan then they probably deserved to be hated back and in that case it shouldn't upset you to disconnect yourself from them.
I accidentally gave this post a like by accident. I in fact highly disagree with your posts.

You remind of that YouTuber... AmazingAtheist...

I think you have some deep-rooted issues with your own family. You have an extremist like stance on this subject.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

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24-04-2012, 10:23 AM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 10:17 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Here are my assumptions about you:

1) You're not married
2) You're young
3) You don't have kids
4) You probably don't even think about any of the above

I might be wrong, but that's how you come across
1. Married for nearly 6 years.
2. Almost 29 years old.
3. Have a 2 year old daughter.
4. See above.


I'm not talking about divorcing just becasue they change their views. I'm talking about admitting to being an atheist and then having your friends and family shun and despise you for it. Those people aren't worth associating with. And I personally wouldn't feel the slightest bit bad about completely removing myself from the lives of people like that. Family or not.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
If you are pretending to go to church and still believe in God that's one thing, But to me,that isn't all that one could describe closet atheism. If your object is mainly based on that I agree in many reasons; I do still understand it.

The idea of closet atheism in just not being out about it doesn't seem a big deal to me. Even with homosexuality it is the same way. They are aspects of your life but don't have to be what defines who you are. It isn't like in everyday life the topics are going to always come up.

I don't find not coming out and saying it to people is the same as not telling people you don't like potatoes.(if you don't like potatoes.)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-04-2012, 10:40 AM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 10:34 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If you are pretending to go to church and still believe in God that's one thing, But to me,that isn't all that one could describe closet atheism. If your object is mainly based on that I agree in many reasons; I do still understand it.

The idea of closet atheism in just not being out about it doesn't seem a big deal to me. Even with homosexuality it is the same way. They are aspects of your life but don't have to be what defines who you are. It isn't like in everyday life the topics are going to always come up.

I don't find not coming out and saying it to people is the same as not telling people you don't like potatoes.(if you don't like potatoes.)
To me if the issue is never brought up then there is nothing to be 'in the closet' about. But if you are gay and no one knows it and stand around and listen to bigotted gay hating friends and family bash homos while you pretend to find it funny just for the sake of hiding it then I pity you and suggest that you sack the fuck up and admit what you are to the people around you. (collective you) If they hate you for it then to hell with em. You're better off being who you are with new friends than hiding who you are just to be included in a circle of bad friends. Same thing goes for family.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 10:52 AM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 10:23 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 10:17 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Here are my assumptions about you:

1) You're not married
2) You're young
3) You don't have kids
4) You probably don't even think about any of the above

I might be wrong, but that's how you come across
1. Married for nearly 6 years.
2. Almost 29 years old.
3. Have a 2 year old daughter.
4. See above.


I'm not talking about divorcing just becasue they change their views. I'm talking about admitting to being an atheist and then having your friends and family shun and despise you for it. Those people aren't worth associating with. And I personally wouldn't feel the slightest bit bad about completely removing myself from the lives of people like that. Family or not.
Haha, I was so off. Laughat

How do you know if they aren't worth associating with if you don't even attempt to salvage the relationship? Like I told you, I never would have known this could all work out if I didn't put up a fight. Yes, there are still those uncomfortable moments and topics we avoid, but whatever. That's just life. Besides, I have outlets like this forum to discuss these subjects. I have friends I can discuss it with. There are many subjects I can discuss with my wife. I can do without 1 of them.

Seriously bro, give this a listen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbyVdCW1KLg

It's changed many minds like yours.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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