I don't understand closet atheism.
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24-04-2012, 11:10 AM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2012 11:36 AM by germanyt.)
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 10:52 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 10:23 AM)germanyt Wrote:  1. Married for nearly 6 years.
2. Almost 29 years old.
3. Have a 2 year old daughter.
4. See above.


I'm not talking about divorcing just becasue they change their views. I'm talking about admitting to being an atheist and then having your friends and family shun and despise you for it. Those people aren't worth associating with. And I personally wouldn't feel the slightest bit bad about completely removing myself from the lives of people like that. Family or not.
Haha, I was so off. Laughat

How do you know if they aren't worth associating with if you don't even attempt to salvage the relationship? Like I told you, I never would have known this could all work out if I didn't put up a fight. Yes, there are still those uncomfortable moments and topics we avoid, but whatever. That's just life. Besides, I have outlets like this forum to discuss these subjects. I have friends I can discuss it with. There are many subjects I can discuss with my wife. I can do without 1 of them.

Seriously bro, give this a listen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbyVdCW1KLg

It's changed many minds like yours.
Listening now but I doubt it'll change how I feel.

I agree with it from 15:00 - 16:35. The rest so far has been a bore.
(24-04-2012 11:10 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 10:52 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Haha, I was so off. Laughat

How do you know if they aren't worth associating with if you don't even attempt to salvage the relationship? Like I told you, I never would have known this could all work out if I didn't put up a fight. Yes, there are still those uncomfortable moments and topics we avoid, but whatever. That's just life. Besides, I have outlets like this forum to discuss these subjects. I have friends I can discuss it with. There are many subjects I can discuss with my wife. I can do without 1 of them.

Seriously bro, give this a listen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbyVdCW1KLg

It's changed many minds like yours.
Listening now but I doubt it'll change how I feel.

I agree with it from 15:00 - 16:35. The rest so far has been a bore.
Halfway through. No change of heart. I don't think you understand how seriously I take this. I would rather be homeless living in a cardboard box in Siberia than with a loving family who only continues to love me because they don't know I'm atheist. Tell the people you know who you really are. Let their true colors show through and then evaluate the status of your relationships. If everyone abondons you then so be it.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 09:57 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Just tell everyone already. Wouldn't you want to know if the people you love would hate you for not believing in god? I would and likely wouldn't be upset if they chose to not associate with me anymore. Family or not. Same thing if you're gay.
Damon Fowler, who spoke out at school was ostracized by the school teachers and kicked out of his home by his parents. That is why there are closet atheists.
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24-04-2012, 01:12 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 12:28 PM)elliott776 Wrote:  
(23-04-2012 09:57 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Just tell everyone already. Wouldn't you want to know if the people you love would hate you for not believing in god? I would and likely wouldn't be upset if they chose to not associate with me anymore. Family or not. Same thing if you're gay.
Damon Fowler, who spoke out at school was ostracized by the school teachers and kicked out of his home by his parents. That is why there are closet atheists.
I've been kicked out on the street several times by my family. That which does not kill me only makes me stronger.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 01:12 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 12:28 PM)elliott776 Wrote:  Damon Fowler, who spoke out at school was ostracized by the school teachers and kicked out of his home by his parents. That is why there are closet atheists.
I've been kicked out on the street several times by my family. That which does not kill me only makes me stronger.

Not always, it can seriously fuck up your life and everything you've worked for during your life. In your teenage years, if you've been disowned by your family- there might be no going back. Which means you're going to have a rough time preparing for college and keeping yourself on your feet. In some cases it might not even be possible. If you have no one to turn to after you've been ostracized, what then?
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24-04-2012, 01:23 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 01:16 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 01:12 PM)germanyt Wrote:  I've been kicked out on the street several times by my family. That which does not kill me only makes me stronger.

Not always, it can seriously fuck up your life and everything you've worked for during your life. In your teenage years, if you've been disowned by your family- there might be no going back. Which means you're going to have a rough time preparing for college and keeping yourself on your feet. In some cases it might not even be possible. If you have no one to turn to after you've been ostracized, what then?
Make it on my own I guess. But this is a little different comparing a minor who lives at home with mom and dad and being a 30 year old who pretends to be a Christian. I'd speak up either way but I could see why some teenagers wouldn't.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 06:57 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2012 07:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(23-04-2012 10:27 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Some of it for me is I just don't want the hassle. If I came totally out, I'd have to deal with more than just my family. I'd have 100 people emailing and calling me to try to point out how foolish I am. It's not that I can't stand up to them, it's that I don't want to.
And I have no fear of my family hating me. That would never happen. But I'm a bit of a mama's boy in that I don't want to break my 77 year old mom's heart, which would happen.

The only reason I even accept the atheism label for myself is that it's far more convenient than explaining that, to paraphrase kim, I'm an ignostic apatheist who doesn't know whether there's some god or not, who might not even be capable of knowing whether there's some god or not, and who couldn't give less of a shit either way. Same reason I just run with the nihilist label instead of trying to explain that nihilism doesn't deny meaning, it celebrates it by making it local, temporary, and artificial. The way I came out to my family and friends some 30-35 years ago now and since is not as an atheist, it's as an incredulist. I don't give a shit about no god, but what's with this promise of a postmortem preservation of identity? How's that work?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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24-04-2012, 07:12 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
There's something I just thought of right now. There's a person/family in my town that almost refuses to speak to me, all because we don't share the exact same religious beliefs (keep in mind they think I'm Christian!). The point in question? I think that having the government license ministers and test them would be (I phrased it as following, only because of the tone I was presented with when it was brought up) "a grey area" to which they replied "it is a BLACK area because the government should do it!" Funny thing is, they're government employees (directly or indirectly), one's a teacher, and one works in a school office. I'd think they'd know better...

Just imagine what the outcome would be if they knew I was atheist!
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24-04-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
(24-04-2012 11:10 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 10:52 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Haha, I was so off. Laughat

How do you know if they aren't worth associating with if you don't even attempt to salvage the relationship? Like I told you, I never would have known this could all work out if I didn't put up a fight. Yes, there are still those uncomfortable moments and topics we avoid, but whatever. That's just life. Besides, I have outlets like this forum to discuss these subjects. I have friends I can discuss it with. There are many subjects I can discuss with my wife. I can do without 1 of them.

Seriously bro, give this a listen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbyVdCW1KLg

It's changed many minds like yours.
Listening now but I doubt it'll change how I feel.

I agree with it from 15:00 - 16:35. The rest so far has been a bore.
(24-04-2012 11:10 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Listening now but I doubt it'll change how I feel.

I agree with it from 15:00 - 16:35. The rest so far has been a bore.
Halfway through. No change of heart. I don't think you understand how seriously I take this. I would rather be homeless living in a cardboard box in Siberia than with a loving family who only continues to love me because they don't know I'm atheist. Tell the people you know who you really are. Let their true colors show through and then evaluate the status of your relationships. If everyone abondons you then so be it.

Well that's a little different than what I initially thought when you said that YOU would immediately leave them. If people abandon me, then yea... I will have to agree with "so be it".

But the priesthood thing, that's a whole different level of being in the closet.

One thing about me with family is that I just don't talk about religion. Never really did when I was a believer either so that's no biggie. But I do talk about it a great deal with friends especially over brewskis Smile

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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24-04-2012, 09:00 PM
RE: I don't understand closet atheism.
Everyone has secrets. And for each person and each issue they hold private there are different reasons they do so. Not really sure why the fact that some people keep their disbelief private would surprise anyone.

Your beliefs do not make you a better person, your behavior does.
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