I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
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23-11-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
Placebo though it may be, it is still helping her. She feels the effects. That's all that's relevant.
Again, even if it's false hope, it's not a detriment to her or anyone around her to be clinging to it. What WOULD be a detriment is taking it away.

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23-11-2012, 02:45 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 02:44 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Placebo though it may be, it is still helping her. She feels the effects. That's all that's relevant.
Again, even if it's false hope, it's not a detriment to her or anyone around her to be clinging to it. What WOULD be a detriment is taking it away.
Of which I said I am not taking it away, only she can really take it away, I can only talk about it.

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23-11-2012, 03:01 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2012 03:05 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
The fact you would even think about discussing it is cold. Imagine you as an atheist are in your death throes and have resigned to your fate. Then along comes preacher man coming to educate you about God. He understands that it is your choice as to whether or not you wish to accept his message, but he's going to stick his Jesus praising, religious pecker down your throat in an attempt to sell his ideology the best he can and save you. You won't enjoy it, you won't find it welcoming, and in that state, you would probably see it as downright insensitive, aggravating, distressing, and exhausting. Here you've been living your life the way you knew and thought best, and in your final days, some asshole prick comes around telling you how wrong you've been and that you wasted your life. How is what you would do in such a hypothetical situation any different? The content might be different, but the insensitivity of the whole thing would remain intact for the same reasons.

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23-11-2012, 03:10 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 03:01 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  The fact you would even think about discussing it is cold. Imagine you as an atheist are in your death throes and have resigned to your fate. Then along comes preacher man coming to educate you about God. He understands that it is your choice as to whether or not you wish to accept his message, but he's going to stick his Jesus praising, religious pecker down your throat in an attempt to sell his ideology the best he can and save you. You won't enjoy it, you won't find it welcoming, and in that state, you would probably see it as downright insensitive, aggravating, distressing, and exhausting. Here you've been living your life the way you knew and thought best, and in your final days, some asshole prick comes around telling you how wrong you've been and that you wasted your life. How is what you would do in such a hypothetical situation any different? The content might be different, but the insensitivity of the whole thing would remain intact for the same reasons.
You do realize that there are multiple ways of discussing this issue right? I am not going to go hard and press if they don't want to talk about it. I am going to ask, and if they said no, I will respect their decision.

The problem with the preacher example is that you are assuming I am going in guns a blazing and making sure she listens to me. How ignorant of talking skills do you have to be to assume that this is the only way to convey a message?
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23-11-2012, 03:30 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
Ato, in my post I wasn't replying to you personally. I was replying to the combined sentiments in the thread.

I don't think you would be purposefully cruel.

But - just write the dying off. They do not need deconverting, they are doing no harm, and if nothing else you would be wasting your time. Stick with people who have 10 or 20 or more years left to digest and change. The old have no time to deal with such huge life changes. The longer they have believed whatever shit, the deeper it is.

Deconverting the generation that will soon be running things - yours - that's the most important of all. Deconverting those with children who still live at home - that's also important. Deconverting those who spread that nonsense - important again.

But old people, minding their own business and trying to survive with a measure of dignity day to day, they are not at all important to deconvert. They are better off staying the way they are, and since there is no harm in it, there is certainly no point in wasting one's time and making them miserable. There are lots of bigger fish to fry, tons of them.

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23-11-2012, 03:41 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
A number of times we have posted the Deconversion video. It's not just "one" thing that's wrong. It's an entire worldview. It's the way someone has understood their entire life. It's pulling the rug out from under someone. It has to be done carefully, and slowly. I'm afraid I'm completely with Erxy on this one.




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23-11-2012, 04:03 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
I find it interesting how hung up some people get on truth. Especialy younger people.


First, truth ain't black and white. It's a complex, flexible, and often personal thing.


Second, truth isn't the be all, end all.




You want some real truth? Ok, here it is.......I hope that when I am at the end of my life, I have someone close to me, that realizes that sometimes my happiness is far more important than the truth. Erxys mom is a lucky lady. And that's the truth.

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23-11-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 04:03 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I find it interesting how hung up some people get on truth. Especialy younger people.


First, truth ain't black and white. It's a complex, flexible, and often personal thing.


Second, truth isn't the be all, end all.

I hadn't even thought about it from that angle, and that is a very interesting topic - truth.

What exactly does it mean?





Quote:Definition of TRUTH




1

a archaic : fidelity, constancy
b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance



2

a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>
c : the body of true statements and propositions



3

a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
b chiefly British : true 2
c : fidelity to an original or to a standard



4

capitalized Christian Science : god

in truth





: in accordance with fact : actually


That really leaves it wide open to be different from person to person.

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23-11-2012, 04:56 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
Sorry, but It is of my opinion that happiness is second only to truth.

It's not like I would jump on the chance to convert anybody of old age, but I am not going to let it go without gently trying to talk about it. If it truly is a lost cause, I will let it go.

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23-11-2012, 11:13 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
First:

Bravo, Eric. Bravo. I highly respect this approach.

James, well said.

Likewise, Lucas... you too... what you said about "truth" is right on.

Dom and Sauce... well said as well.

Now:

A2 and the others opposing this approach... I have a question.

Proselytizing

The horrific, damnable, heinous word that gets atheists in a frenzy.

I see some interesting concepts being portrayed here -

1) One group portraying "truth" as they see it.
2) One group aiming to "deconvert" the other group.
3) Preach the "truth" at all costs.
4) Convey the "truth" to the other group regardless if its wanted or not.
5) Shove the "truth" into the other group's face without regards to the possible emotional, spiritual, psychological, or even physical damage it potentially could cause.
6) Regarding your "truth" as the end game. The ultimate. The sole absolute. The unquestionable.

So, I have to ask: What makes you any different from a pushy, proselytizing theist?

The only I see is how one defines "truth" and the addition of the letter "A".

This has been a peculiar phenomenon that I've been observing for the past year. When I ask people about this, I get ignored. I'm genuinely curious how and why you think someone who is unwilling and uninterested in your "truth" is any different that those like you that are uninterested in someone else's "truth".

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