I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-11-2012, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2012 11:24 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
Quote: What makes you any different from a pushy, proselytizing theist?
First of all, I wouldn't be pushy. So that would be different, and I actually don't have a problem with theists proselytizing to me, as I can understand where they are coming from, but it is how they are doing it.

Pushy is bad, and I agree that it is horrible to push a loved one into nonbelief, but I am not going to hold my tongue. I am going to talk, but I will not be pushy, and I will respect their decision to say no.

So, did that answer your question?

How I see it is questionable, what I view as true is not unquestionable, or absolute in anyway, but I will show my loved ones the respect they deserve and tell them how I truly see it. No matter how it makes me or they feel. They deserve my honest views on such things, and I won't deny that living comfortably is nice, especially for old, or sickly people, but I think being honest, and wanting people to try to see reality is a good thing.

I think many of you think I am going to be pushy and confrontational and like a preacher or a religious nutbag, but there are numerous ways to talk about God without being ANY of those things.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 11:30 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 11:20 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
Quote: What makes you any different from a pushy, proselytizing theist?
First of all, I wouldn't be pushy. So that would be different, and I actually don't have a problem with theists proselytizing to me, as I can understand where they are coming from, but it is how they are doing it.

Pushy is bad, and I agree that it is horrible to push a loved one into nonbelief, but I am not going to hold my tongue. I am going to talk, but I will not be pushy, and I will respect their decision to say no.

So, did that answer your question?

How I see it is questionable, what I view as true is not unquestionable, or absolute in anyway, but I will show my loved ones the respect they deserve and tell them how I truly see it. No matter how it makes me or they feel. They deserve my honest views on such things, and I won't deny that living comfortably is nice, especially for old, or sickly people, but I think being honest, and wanting people to try to see reality is a good thing.

I think many of you think I am going to be pushy and confrontational and like a preacher or a religious nutbag, but there are numerous ways to talk about God without being ANY of those things.
No, I get that.

Thanks for answering that. So, you do pretty much the same as me. If someone wants to talk, you talk... if not, you don't push it upon them.

Cool.

[Image: vjp09.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 11:34 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 11:30 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-11-2012 11:20 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  First of all, I wouldn't be pushy. So that would be different, and I actually don't have a problem with theists proselytizing to me, as I can understand where they are coming from, but it is how they are doing it.

Pushy is bad, and I agree that it is horrible to push a loved one into nonbelief, but I am not going to hold my tongue. I am going to talk, but I will not be pushy, and I will respect their decision to say no.

So, did that answer your question?

How I see it is questionable, what I view as true is not unquestionable, or absolute in anyway, but I will show my loved ones the respect they deserve and tell them how I truly see it. No matter how it makes me or they feel. They deserve my honest views on such things, and I won't deny that living comfortably is nice, especially for old, or sickly people, but I think being honest, and wanting people to try to see reality is a good thing.

I think many of you think I am going to be pushy and confrontational and like a preacher or a religious nutbag, but there are numerous ways to talk about God without being ANY of those things.
No, I get that.

Thanks for answering that. So, you do pretty much the same as me. If someone wants to talk, you talk... if not, you don't push it upon them.

Cool.
Yeah, it's not like I seek to talk, but if they ask me, or if I start and they say NO, I will respect their right to not change their mind.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 11:37 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 03:01 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  The fact you would even think about discussing it is cold. Imagine you as an atheist are in your death throes and have resigned to your fate. Then along comes preacher man coming to educate you about God. He understands that it is your choice as to whether or not you wish to accept his message, but he's going to stick his Jesus praising, religious pecker down your throat in an attempt to sell his ideology the best he can and save you. You won't enjoy it, you won't find it welcoming, and in that state, you would probably see it as downright insensitive, aggravating, distressing, and exhausting. Here you've been living your life the way you knew and thought best, and in your final days, some asshole prick comes around telling you how wrong you've been and that you wasted your life. How is what you would do in such a hypothetical situation any different? The content might be different, but the insensitivity of the whole thing would remain intact for the same reasons.
I see no problem with a preacher or a family member trying to convert me, as long as they don't be a condescending dick about it.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 11:45 PM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(22-11-2012 11:57 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  There wasn't a Positive Theism section, so I thought I'd slip it in here anyway.

I was pondering a bit tonight. Perhaps inspired by the leftover turkey dinner from American Thanksgiving, I was thinking about my 77 year old mother who has suffered physical pain throughout her body for large chunks of her life and especially the past 4 or 5 years her pains have really beaten her down. She is unable to do so many of the things she loves. I remember my mom being a fun and festive hostess for Thanksgiving dinner. She enjoyed decorating the house and having all the right pre-feasting snacks. For several years she would buy silly toys for all the family members. The best year was the marshmallow guns she bought for my nephews and for my brother and me. We had to stop that practice because the Pug was eating all the marshmallows and getting Puggier. Big Grin

In all the years of my mom's physical suffering, I've rarely ever heard her complain. I've heard her scream out in pain and had an anxiety attack because of it, but she doesn't complain. She thinks that she is meant to go through this suffering to help her identify more closely to Zombie Jesus. She thinks that her faith is going to lead her into an eternal life where she will have a new body with no more pain ever again and she will have such absolute gratitude to The Lord for all he has done for her. I don't know how much longer she'll be here. Maybe another 20 years. Maybe much sooner. I like that my mom is able to find comfort in thinking that she'll soon be in the loving and healing arms of Jesus, and she'll see my dad again, and oh, how is she going to explain being married to StepBob for 20 some years and hm...

If I were to challenge my mom to a theological debate and could by the end of it convince her without a doubt it's all been a lie, I wouldn't go through with it. If she were to become an atheist today, it would ruin her. She'd say, "You mean I went through all that fucking pain shit and there's no reward waiting for me in a non-existent heaven?"

Now, do I wish my mom had become an atheist at a much younger age, or was always an atheist? Sure thing. It would have made my life better! I think in her case she would have relied on science more instead of faith in god to get better treatment at different times in her life.

Anyway. That's just my little two-cents for the night. Maybe should have filed this under the What Did I Learn Today Thread. Or maybe this will open a little more of the discussion we often have on coming out to families.


Ignorance is bliss, eh?

Not to be offensive or nothing, but sometimes the ignorance has got to be maintained for a persons good.... As much as it pains me to admit that.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-11-2012, 08:48 AM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
My Southern Baptist grandmother occasionally takes time to write me a long letter trying to convert me. She's in her mid-80's; her health isn't what it used to be; she hates writing letters, and from the handwriting I can tell she has arthritis or at least shaky hands.

We've never been close and for other reasons I'm OK keeping it that way. I don't even like her much as a person. When I answer her letters, I address things as firmly and honestly as possible....but when it comes to my opinion about religion, I take painstaking steps to avoid explicitly criticizing it. The last letter I wrote about it I finally broke down and said, "I don't believe in your book."

At this stage in her life, religion is all she has. I won't lie to her by saying I believe, but unless she pushes to know why I don't believe, I'm not going to rattle her cage at this point. She's just an old woman living out her days.

Drinking Beverage Grab a cuppa' joe; sit-n-read my blog for a spell: www.vaweber.wordpress.com
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Percepticon's post
24-11-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(23-11-2012 11:20 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I am going to talk, but I will not be pushy, and I will respect their decision to say no.


You still don't get old people. They are not like you, strong and able to stand up for yourself and tell someone "no".

They will sit there and let the stuff rain down on them and pray it will end...and then they will cry.

They are helpless.

When my mom was on her death bed she asked me to please go block the door so the priest could not get in. She didn't want to waste what little life she had left listening to something she was never going to get anything out of, and that was offensive to her (non)belief and sensibilities.

If I had not been abe to shield her, she would have had to listen to the priest, trying hard as heck to ignore him and nodding here and there hoping it would make it end faster.

You just don't get old people, you still must be thinking of people your parent's age. They are not old and perfectly able to stand up for themselves.

When you are old you avoid confrontation because you know you don't have the strength to stand up for yourself. That's why there is so much elder abuse in this world - the old are totally defenseless.

This old person will sit there helplessly listening to you tearing down everything that made up their values in life...just cruel.

Go and volunteer for a while in an old folk's home - so you can understand better what it's like to be old and helpless.

Whether someone pushes religion or atheism or anything else makes no difference - when you do it to an elderly person, it's cruel. They can't debate anymore. They are just sitting ducks. And shooting down everything that matters to them is .... I lack the words.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Dom's post
24-11-2012, 11:53 AM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2012 12:10 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(24-11-2012 09:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(23-11-2012 11:20 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I am going to talk, but I will not be pushy, and I will respect their decision to say no.


You still don't get old people. They are not like you, strong and able to stand up for yourself and tell someone "no".

They will sit there and let the stuff rain down on them and pray it will end...and then they will cry.

They are helpless.

When my mom was on her death bed she asked me to please go block the door so the priest could not get in. She didn't want to waste what little life she had left listening to something she was never going to get anything out of, and that was offensive to her (non)belief and sensibilities.

If I had not been abe to shield her, she would have had to listen to the priest, trying hard as heck to ignore him and nodding here and there hoping it would make it end faster.

You just don't get old people, you still must be thinking of people your parent's age. They are not old and perfectly able to stand up for themselves.

When you are old you avoid confrontation because you know you don't have the strength to stand up for yourself. That's why there is so much elder abuse in this world - the old are totally defenseless.

This old person will sit there helplessly listening to you tearing down everything that made up their values in life...just cruel.

Go and volunteer for a while in an old folk's home - so you can understand better what it's like to be old and helpless.

Whether someone pushes religion or atheism or anything else makes no difference - when you do it to an elderly person, it's cruel. They can't debate anymore. They are just sitting ducks. And shooting down everything that matters to them is .... I lack the words.
Excuse me. I get the feeling that you think I am just going to start and then keep going on talking about it. First, I will ask, if they are silent, I will take that as a no. If they say no, that's a no. If they say yes, I will be as kind and understanding as possible.

I almost want to say fuck you, but I realize that maybe you just think I am so ignorant that you assume I haven't helped out old people before.

Do you honestly think I will be so cruel as to NOT ASK FIRST? DO YOU THINK I AM THAT HEARTLESS THAT I WILL TAKE THEIR SILENCE AS A YES?

How about you stop assuming shit about me? I am more careful, understanding, and knowledgable than you think about situations like these.

You just don't get me, so how about you shut the fuck up about how "I don't get old people, I must be still thinking about people in their mid forties" because it is getting frustrating that I have to endure you calling me ignorant of a subject I am very well versed in.

Yes, I am getting mad at you, Dom. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I am because I am sick and tired of you assumin I do not know how to talk to old people because I am young.

By the way, I volunteered for two years at an old folks home, so thanks for nothing.

I am sorry for getting mad, but when I think to how It's my job to babysit senior citizens and take care of them and you saying I know nothing about old people makes me think that I have not done a good job.

My question is Dom, do you think all old people are so weak that they can't say "No." Or something else to that effect? Do you think all old people are sitting ducks? Because I have taken care of a lot of old people, and some of them are definitely NOT sitting ducks, or anything like you describe them to be. How much are you relying on your description of you mother to make a point? Because I have met old people that can handle it, and that have handled it. Not all of the time is religion there frame work. No, it wasn't me that converted them, but their own thinking.

I remember there was a war vet that I was talking too and when he was describing how that chaplains were so useless he was stone cold serious. Me, being a theist back then, asked why they were useless and he replied that God wasn't real. I asked him why he thought that, and he said "Any Decent God wouldn't send anyone to war."

I asked him when he started thinking that, and he said he last believed in god a year ago. This man was 91.

I am not telling you you are wrong, I am just saying your points are not for all old people.

A talk about God doesn't need to be threatening, and it doesn't need to be pushy or negative.

Silence is an answer, Dom, I understand that more than you can possibly know.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-11-2012, 11:55 AM
RE: I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
I don't want my atheist to be a mom.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like lucradis's post
24-11-2012, 12:15 PM
I don't want my mom to become an atheist.
(24-11-2012 11:55 AM)lucradis Wrote:  I don't want my atheist to be a mom.

Maybe in 30 years. You'll need grandchildren to wipe your drool in your old age.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: