I don't want to lose the love of my life.
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11-01-2017, 04:12 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
Eh, that seems a little bit premature Banjo. But maybe you're right, I really don't know. Whatever, good luck with it Sean!

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11-01-2017, 04:15 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
Mate it's like the dunny guy, Kev, said. "buy a house, a car, give her the keys and save yourself 15 years."

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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16-01-2017, 07:01 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
Right now we are just not speaking to each other about religion. I'm still going to church but I just need to sit there and listen, and not talk about it after. Then my wife asked me if I would like to go to bible study with her this past Sunday night. I attended this bible study once about 8 months ago, and not since. I explained that I don't want to argue with people.

Church on Sunday was the second part of the "Who Needs God" series. It was mostly bashing atheists of being fools, bashing scientists because "they don't have all the answers" and pushing a bunch of inaccurate pseudoscientific information. At one point he tells a bible story about an army that was going to attach Israel, and how they ended up "running away." He stated that the bible tells us that angels attached the army and that is why they ran. But, some 16th century "scientist" has a theory that a swarm of mice chewed the archers' bow strings which cause the bows to snap and that scared the army away. The pastor than goes on to say how foolish of a story it is that mice chased away the army, and that he believes the angels are obviously the actual reason. I wanted to smack my hand to my forehead. I wanted to stand up and say, "Oh really? So you are saying that supernatural beings are a more plausible reason? First, we don't even know if this event actually happened because there is not historical proof. Second, both "theories" are very improbable. Third, if I had to chose one I would chose the mice because I have seen mice, I know for a fact they exist and that they have a tendency to chew things, and if the army lost most of their bows they would have serious issues attaching another army!!!"

So, to make things more interesting I had a conversation with my devout christian mother on Saturday. I was talking about my struggle with the bible and some of the nonsensical things about Christianity in general. She listened and seemed very interested. We spoke about hell, and how an "All Loving" God just couldn't condemn people to hell and still be all loving. She seemed on board. Then I asked, "If I said I don't believe, do you think God would send me to hell." Without hesitation she say, "Yes!" I asked why and she said, "Because that is what the bible says." I dropped the subject right then.

Since my full "deconversion" it just amazes me how brainwashed people are when it comes to religion. My own sweet loving mother feels that God is fully justified in torturing me for all eternity if I don't believe in an invisible God, who never demonstrates himself in any provable fashion.
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16-01-2017, 07:03 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
(11-01-2017 04:15 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Mate it's like the dunny guy, Kev, said. "buy a house, a car, give her the keys and save yourself 15 years."

I just don't know if she will do that, but this is going to increase the tension in our marriage. I'm seriously considering suggesting counselling, and not with a "Christian" counselor.
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16-01-2017, 07:14 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
(16-01-2017 07:03 AM)Sean Jacobs Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:15 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Mate it's like the dunny guy, Kev, said. "buy a house, a car, give her the keys and save yourself 15 years."

I just don't know if she will do that, but this is going to increase the tension in our marriage. I'm seriously considering suggesting counselling, and not with a "Christian" counselor.

Counseling isn't a bad idea. My wife and I went to a counsellor several years afo during a rough patch. He was a christian which at the beginning bothered me but I thought that he had the right amount of it in there to be able to speak to my wife. He never pushed it on me or anything. I thought he did a good job. I agreed to the counsellor thing because I knew that he could speak to her in terms she wanted. Personally, I would have rather had zero jeebus but there was enough that we were able to get through it. I don't think she would have listened or considered going to a secular counsellor. Something to consider.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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16-01-2017, 07:45 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
(16-01-2017 07:01 AM)Sean Jacobs Wrote:  So, to make things more interesting I had a conversation with my devout christian mother on Saturday. I was talking about my struggle with the bible and some of the nonsensical things about Christianity in general. She listened and seemed very interested. We spoke about hell, and how an "All Loving" God just couldn't condemn people to hell and still be all loving. She seemed on board. Then I asked, "If I said I don't believe, do you think God would send me to hell." Without hesitation she say, "Yes!" I asked why and she said, "Because that is what the bible says." I dropped the subject right then.

Since my full "deconversion" it just amazes me how brainwashed people are when it comes to religion. My own sweet loving mother feels that God is fully justified in torturing me for all eternity if I don't believe in an invisible God, who never demonstrates himself in any provable fashion.

She didn't say she thought it would be right, at least in the bit you quoted, just that she thought God would do it.

I had a very similar conversation with my Mama which went something like this:
Dog: I don't believe in God.
Mama: What??? You'll go to hell!
Dog: If God wants to send me to hell for not believing in him, despite me being generally a nice guy, then he's not really that nice himself is he?
Mama: Blink Right. That does it. God is NOT sending my little boy to hell. Therefore God is nice and won't send unbelievers to hell. QED.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-01-2017, 10:54 PM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
The best love of all is the love we have for ourselves, and if this person loves you for you...then it's the real thing. Be true to yourself, and all else will flow from that. Heart

Be true to yourself. Heart
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17-01-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
(16-01-2017 10:54 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  The best love of all is the love we have for ourselves, and if this person loves you for you...then it's the real thing. Be true to yourself, and all else will flow from that. Heart

That is fantastic. Thank you Deidre32.

I know my wife loves me and at this point I don't think she will divorce me. It is going to be difficult for a while but I hope we find a way to make it work so we can both be happy.
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18-01-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
(10-01-2017 09:00 AM)Sean Jacobs Wrote:  She then said, “This is how we are so different. One of my ‘gifts’ is that I just take it on faith. I don’t need to think about it, I just accept it. You expect too much. You over analyses it.”
This is her way of just wanting to be allowed to slumber undisturbed. A lot of people are incurious and/or cope with life by avoiding full engagement with it. Perhaps your most fundamental question is going to end up being, whether your own style of engagement can accept her style.

Personally I have always been attracted to intelligent, curious women, so this would be a real turnoff. Combined with the lack of physical intimacy, particularly if there are no kids in the picture, I would be thinking about this independently of our increasing differences over religious faith, as a basic compatibility issue. On the other hand, I sense that you are, like me, all about loyalty and devotion, and would have difficulty living with yourself if you broke a pair bond in which there was any reciprocity at all -- and that this is not because of your religious beliefs so much as a basic feature of your personality. I would not pretend to tell you how to navigate this and arguably you don't want to complicate your deconversion just now by amplifying your marital difficulties.

So I guess my thought is that if you really love your wife and want to keep working through this, that is what you should do for the present as long as she is willing. In that case the inflection point may be whether she can gradually accept your religious differences and not use them as an excuse to complain endlessly or scapegoat you. If your marriage ends up just being a means of telling you every day why everything would be okay if you would just return to the fold, then I think you have your answer. If on the other hand mutual respect remains and you end up growing together (rather than apart) in other ways, that can work too.

I am ignoring the sexual issues here of course because you appear to have accepted that handicap and when you are pushing 60 like me someday you'll see that is's overrated anyway. There are other forms of intimacy. But the fact remains that some people need it and its a sticking point. That is for you to decide.
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24-01-2017, 08:17 AM
RE: I don't want to lose the love of my life.
(18-01-2017 07:30 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(10-01-2017 09:00 AM)Sean Jacobs Wrote:  She then said, “This is how we are so different. One of my ‘gifts’ is that I just take it on faith. I don’t need to think about it, I just accept it. You expect too much. You over analyses it.”
This is her way of just wanting to be allowed to slumber undisturbed. A lot of people are incurious and/or cope with life by avoiding full engagement with it. Perhaps your most fundamental question is going to end up being, whether your own style of engagement can accept her style.

Personally I have always been attracted to intelligent, curious women, so this would be a real turnoff. Combined with the lack of physical intimacy, particularly if there are no kids in the picture, I would be thinking about this independently of our increasing differences over religious faith, as a basic compatibility issue. On the other hand, I sense that you are, like me, all about loyalty and devotion, and would have difficulty living with yourself if you broke a pair bond in which there was any reciprocity at all -- and that this is not because of your religious beliefs so much as a basic feature of your personality. I would not pretend to tell you how to navigate this and arguably you don't want to complicate your deconversion just now by amplifying your marital difficulties.

So I guess my thought is that if you really love your wife and want to keep working through this, that is what you should do for the present as long as she is willing. In that case the inflection point may be whether she can gradually accept your religious differences and not use them as an excuse to complain endlessly or scapegoat you. If your marriage ends up just being a means of telling you every day why everything would be okay if you would just return to the fold, then I think you have your answer. If on the other hand mutual respect remains and you end up growing together (rather than apart) in other ways, that can work too.

I am ignoring the sexual issues here of course because you appear to have accepted that handicap and when you are pushing 60 like me someday you'll see that is's overrated anyway. There are other forms of intimacy. But the fact remains that some people need it and its a sticking point. That is for you to decide.


Thanks mordant. I agree. She just wants to accept. She is a follower, and has been all of her life. I'm a bit more of rebel, and always have been.

Yes, I love my wife dearly and I want to stay with her. I'm hoping we can find a way to make this work.

Last night she was watching some show on TV and they showed this bible based theme park where they have built a replica of Noah's ark. I had read something about that replica and said, "I heard that it took over 1000 workers, using modern construction equipment and using steel reinforcements, over a year to complete the ark." She looks at me and asks, "Do you believe the story of Noah's ark?"
At that moment I realized I probably should have kept my mouth shut. I respond, "No I don't."
She replies, "You know that you can't pick and choose what parts of the bible you believe."
I take a deep breath and respond, "Do you really think that 8 guys with primitive equipment could have built the ark?"
She responds, "They had help from God."
I reply, "The bible never mentions God assisting with the building of the ark. Besides, there is no evidence of a global flood which covered all the land on earth under 5 miles of water between 4000-6000 years ago. That type of event would have to leave enormous amounts of evidence. Unless God is just hiding the evidence."
She just sat there looking at me and I changed the subject. I went to bed shortly after and was reading. She came in and acted like nothing happened. I'm wondering if this is going to be a "Don't ask, don't tell" situation. I can "Play along" and go to church, not mention my beliefs around her church friends, not argue about anything related to Christianity. But, I strongly suspect that sooner or later someone is going to corner me (Like her ultra-Christian parent, or some of the women from her bible study) and I will respond in a way that will clearly demonstrate how I feel.
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