I feel bad for Brock Turner
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13-06-2016, 05:18 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
mittens, did you really just use the "my mommy says such and such about me..." defense? i thought that got tossed aside after entering the first grade.
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13-06-2016, 05:23 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
(12-06-2016 07:35 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 07:33 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  No, you are admitting yourself to be a potential rapist. Pointing out that you think the poor rapist was damaged more than his victim!

I didn't say that.

(12-06-2016 07:07 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Well, to be honest, I feel worse for criminals because they're more demonized and punished than people who are victims of their crimes.

=========================

(12-06-2016 08:36 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 08:24 PM)Anjele Wrote:  No sympathy for the victim? Yeah, I feel sympathy for rape victims. Quit demonizing me, fuck off.

(12-06-2016 12:12 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I don't give a fuck about the victim, she's immaterial to me. Maybe if I actually met her and got to know her I would actually care about her, I'm not saying that I'm the sort of person who doesn't give a shit about people in general, because I do, a lot actually. I make a good friend.

=========================

It is not our fault that you are unable to express what you mean clearly.

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13-06-2016, 05:43 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
(13-06-2016 05:18 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  mittens, did you really just use the "my mommy says such and such about me..." defense? i thought that got tossed aside after entering the first grade.

Someone asked me what my mom thinks about what I said. Fuck off.
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13-06-2016, 06:19 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
(13-06-2016 05:43 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:18 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  mittens, did you really just use the "my mommy says such and such about me..." defense? i thought that got tossed aside after entering the first grade.

Someone asked me what my mom thinks about what I said. Fuck off.

go fuck your mom. just tell her about your bad programming, or society, or whatever bs you were spewing. sounds like she'd buy that.
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13-06-2016, 06:25 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
A small premise...

I've seen a couple of users saying something to the effect of "Of course you think like this, you're a male."

Seriously? Dodgy

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(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I feel bad for Brock Turner, as I feel bad for anyone who's basically bound to the laws of society.

Why? Laws of society exist to maintain some form of order. If we didn't have laws, everybody would do whatever the hell they wanted to. Let me be precise on this:

People should be free to do whatever they want, EXCEPT when this whatever infringes upon and/or breaks someone else's right. Any right.

So I want an ice cream while I'm dressed fully in pink taking a picture of a statue = GOOD.
Rape someone = NOT GOOD.

Simple, yet effective.

(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I feel bad that a person has their life ruined, that their reputation is in shambles, that hey can't compete in the Olympics when they were an Olympic hopeful.

What the hell, I can't even be sarcastic on this one. The dude raped someone, he ruined his own life, he messed up his own reputation. Of course, he also ruined other people's lives, but I want to address this quote. HE is solely responsible for what happened. He deserves to be removed from society, he clearly showed he can't be trusted.

(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I feel bad for people who commit a crime, no matter how severe, and basically have the law inflicting severe punishments on them. As a matter of fact, I feel happy when people get away with serious crimes.

Why do you feel bad for people who commit crimes? If someone committed a crime against you, would you feel bad for them? Come. On.

(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I'm not trying to fuck with you, as a lot of people have thought when I've brought up this point before. Ultimately I feel that reality is deterministic, I believe that people will commit crimes because the universe is a naturally chaotic place. To be mad at people who commit crimes is ultimately to be mad at the natural chaotic order of the universe. That's immature.

People commit crimes because they want to. Sure, some people are not capable of understanding the crime they committed, but those should still be removed from society and they should be looked after. But other people commit crimes because they want to. You can't excuse their actions just because the universe is deterministic. How could you explain otherwise that I don't go around committing the same crime? Am I immune from said chaotic configuration? Come. On.

(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  The justice system doesn't work, regardless. It's pure pragmatism. We put people in jail because there's an existential dilemma in our society; we have to live with one another and we have to make society work among the chaos. That is the point of the justice system. Not to mention that our punitive justice system is archaic and draconian. We're caging people like animals, and in a lot of cases we hate people, because they're the other. They're the "them" in our pack of society. That mentality saddens me to the deepest existential core of my being. I believe we're all people, it makes me sad when I see people's one life get squandered.

The justice system is not working when someone gets only a 6 months sentence for rape. Not sure how it works in the US, but I would have given him more than that. Much more.

Yes, we're all people. But some of us have shown, clearly shown, that they don't deserve to be with others. When a child is not behaving properly with the rest of the class, you remove them from the class. If a grown man who understands the consequences of his actions commits a horrible crime against another human being, they deserve to be put away. They should be treated humanely, because as weird as it might sound to some, also he deserves his human rights. Nonetheless, he should enjoy them in a prison cell.

(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  There's many who don't get my point of view, and I have tried to explain it to people before, my dad got upset and didn't really want to listen to me. He said that he believes that if someone commits this sort of crime that their life deserves to be ruined. What right does one person have to assert total control over another human being? I think that it's sad, but this self righteousness arises out of an illusion of consciousness. We perceive ourselves to have free will, which is false. We're ultimately governed by the same forces that pull a rock down a hill.

Your dad is right. Also, the bolded sentence... that works also for the rape victim, you know, the woman in this case who got raped. What right did Brock have to assert his total control on her? Spoiler alert: None.

(12-06-2016 05:50 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  It's amazing to me, that through those forces I can do the things I do, but ultimately it's a program, it's a computer. It may sound like I'm trying to excuse someone for their "biological urge to rape", well, actually yes, I suppose you could look at it that way. Because if that's the sort of brain that a person has developed, and they don't work along the same lines of morality that someone else has, then you can't blame them, you shouldn't blame anyone really. Because that is simply the way things work.

Yes, you're excusing him. You see, someone can be killed in self-defense. You can kill trying to defend yourself, that's why in such cases, the sentence is very different than a first degree murder case.

However, you cannot rape someone in self-defense. It's impossible. Rape is always an offense, it's always an attack. Because while you could just kill someone unintentionally, you cannot rape someone unintentionally. You cannot just trip and fall over in a sex position. You cannot.

So it doesn't exist in the universe one case where a rape can be excused. There is no context that can make it OK. And if you have one, then show it, but I'm pretty sure you don't have it.

If their brain has issues and they are not capable of understanding their actions, they still should be removed from society. Only to a different place than a regular prison cell.

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13-06-2016, 06:35 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
(13-06-2016 06:25 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  A small premise...

I've seen a couple of users saying something to the effect of "Of course you think like this, you're a male."

Seriously? Dodgy

You are quoting incorrectly. There was a statement was that OP was female. Some of us expressed surprise that a female would think this way. In my experience this kind of thinking is almost solely the preserve of angry young *male* idiots who think the world owes them something.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-06-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
(13-06-2016 06:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 06:25 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  A small premise...

I've seen a couple of users saying something to the effect of "Of course you think like this, you're a male."

Seriously? Dodgy

You are quoting incorrectly. There was a statement was that OP was female. Some of us expressed surprise that a female would think this way. In my experience this kind of thinking is almost solely the preserve of angry young *male* idiots who think the world owes them something.

Yeah, I understood the context of your post. But someone else made a different statement. And I take issue with that statement. Just that statement, I agree with everything else that has been said, unless I missed something. At least, anything that agrees with my post. Wink

孤独 - The Out Crowd
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13-06-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
(13-06-2016 05:43 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:18 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  mittens, did you really just use the "my mommy says such and such about me..." defense? i thought that got tossed aside after entering the first grade.

Someone asked me what my mom thinks about what I said. Fuck off.

Did you actually show her what you posted, though? Let her read the stuff where you were happy when people get away with their crimes and how you "don't give a fuck" about the victim?

I bet not, or you'd be grounded from using the computer right now.
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13-06-2016, 07:09 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
A lot of this circles back to whether you believe there is free will or not. I don't.

I think our brains are hardwired a certain way, and then the software is developed early in life.

We all have different amounts of the basic instincts. That is how evolution works - always tweaking, always coming out with different combinations.

Take me - I have too much empathy, I can literally feel the pain of other animals (not just humans) and it is often overwhelming and a "curse". I have zero reproductive drive, and not much of a survival instinct. I am also an introvert and don't enjoy the company of other humans except in small doses. I am lucky, these are all "disorders" that don't interfere with me or others enjoying life.

There are people on the other end of the spectrum, without empathy, with an overwhelming reproductive drive, with a super strong survival instinct (thinks everything is a fight or flight situation) and there are social butterflies.

We also have varying amounts of impulse control.

These are not things we choose. These things are hard wired. Now add in the software - like what our rapist got from his mom and dad while growing up.

So, you can argue that the behavior of individuals in specific situations is predictable. It is not a choice, even if it looks like one. Even if, in the same situation, most of us would not act that way.

Because of that, I am with Mittens to a point. Mittens just has not thought it all the way through yet, and also lacks life experience.

All of the above doesn't mean that we tolerate aberrant behavior, we still need to remove the individual from situations where they can inflict harm on others.

But it does shine a different light on guilt, evil, punishment, repentance, revenge and all those religious concepts that have crept so deeply into our lives that they seem normal to us.

So, Mittens, I get it. But - you haven't thought it all the way through yet. Society needs to protect itself, protect you and me and everyone. Survival of the species is the single biggest drive we have. Without it we perish.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-06-2016, 07:34 AM
RE: I feel bad for Brock Turner
I have purposely stayed out of this thread, but I have to say returning Mitten's bits of profanity with such vitriol is harmful to anyone and helpful to none. I too find fault in how he presents, and what it seems he is saying but he can be wrong. It can't always be this big patting on the back positive place, but please be nicer to everybody including yourselves.
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