I finally told my mom
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29-06-2015, 05:08 AM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2015 06:10 AM by jennybee.)
RE: I finally told my mom
You are very set in your beliefs, Call. As a former Christian, I used to be the same way. It does not sound like you have any desire to investigate anything further beyond what the Bible tells you. If magic is always the answer for things--then how could one possibly fail? Why are trees green? Magic. Why do birds fly? Magic. How did life form? Magic. If you don't ever look beyond magic--it is really hard to fail in your attempts at trying to understand life and the universe around you.

Past the point of magic, the only thing I can recommend to you-- that is if you are interested in reading beyond an ancient book-- is to read everything you can get your hands on--including books written by mainstream scholars. Read books about science, anthropology, archaeology. Primal myths by Barbara Sproul is a great way to learn about creation stories from other cultures. The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein is an interesting read about biblical archaeology--what was found and what wasn't. The Human Genome Project as suggested by Rocket is also a good resource. There are many resources out there beyond the Bible. I hope you have the desire to search them out.
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29-06-2015, 06:00 AM
RE: I finally told my mom
How do people get cancer? Magic!

Awesome! Smile

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29-06-2015, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2015 12:42 PM by WalkingSnake.)
RE: I finally told my mom
(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  So your moral values comes from a mindless and blind process, and societal constructs that are relative to location, race, age, culture, sex, etc.

Gotcha.

I doubt that you got it. The most important thing for morality is the agreement. I could propose a law that says nobody is allowed to use #2 pencils between 5AM and 6PM on Fridays EST. Do you think society would agree with that rule?

But according to the Bible, the most important thing about morality is the person who proposed it. God said it, thus it is so. That is dangerous morality. In fact morality based on religion is probably the most dangerous morality of all.

But then most Christians don't realize that they aren't getting their morality from the Bible. Otherwise we wouldn't have Christians who eat shrimp, shave their hair and get tattoos. (And I say that knowing full well there are apologists who try to use some convoluted explanation as to why Christians don't follow Old Testament rules: "Yeah but... Jesus tho.")

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  "We now know the cause of earthquakes". Well, we still don't know the cause of life, consciousness, language, the universe, and intelligence.

What's wrong with saying "I don't know"?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  While you wait on science to tell you where that stuff came from, I will be waiting on the return of Jesus...we will see which one comes first.

I was waiting for Pascal's Wager to wedge its way in here. Good job.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  And if you purposely reject the one True God by worshiping false gods, and commits sin in the process thus offending God's holiness, then you deserve whatever you get from God.

"One True God"? Who's that?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Argument from silence. Also, assuming that the Bible needs external sources to corroborate it. Matthews account could be true regardless as to whether there is ANY outside sources to corroborate it.

Facepalm If you're going to call out a logical fallacy, you're going to have to understand what makes it a logical fallacy. Argument from silence would only a fallacy if jennybee was using it to prove that the Bible is wrong. The only thing she was proving there was that due to the lack of evidence, she finds it hard to believe the Bible is right.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  No. This was long before the day of video recordings, news outlets, and social media. So if those saints did come out of their graves, it is highly unlikely that they would have been recognized by the people of that day. If King David came out of his grave, even in his original human form, it isn't as if the average Joe on the street would have said "Do my eyes deceive me, is this not King David??"

Unsure Huh Can you explain this please? It sounds like you just said that during the time, no one would have been impressed with dead bodies coming back to life. They wouldn't have written about it. But now because we got the Twitters that shit would be amazeballs!!!

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  No, he wouldn't have known who this guy was, because he NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE. Second, the narrative doesn't even state how many saints were resurrected...how many were there? 3? 5? 10?

Then why is it relevant?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Um, Jenny...heaven is far beyond the scopes of man, ok Laugh out load

You got that right, bro.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Because as a Biblical believing Christian, I don't believe there is anything in the Bible that was "made up". Sure, there are some metaphorical and symbolic passages, but even these passages have some shred of truth to them.

And how do you separate the metaphorical from the symbolic? Do you just look at the Scriptures and go, "Well, that's scientifically problematic... So it must be metaphorical."

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  There are some old earth creationists out there, Jenny.

Young, old. Whether your a literalist or a theistic evolutionist, atheists still find the creation story to be loaded with plot holes.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Which can't be any worse than the naturalistic claims of abiogenesis.

The difference is that atheists aren't latching onto it as truth. It's an explanation. Christians are dissatisfied with the answer "I don't know" and want - no, NEED - to insert the "Goddidit" explanation AND latch onto it as truth.

And a rib? A freakin rib? Why?!

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Wait a minute, how is the idea of a talking snake any more absurd than inanimate matter suddenly coming to life, and beginning to talk and think?? You have the nerve to sit there and mock Christianity, but have you thought about your own world views?'

Wait a minute. What about evolution is "sudden" to you?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Second, if God exists and if he wants a snake to talk, then the snake will talk.

But does God exist? You have to believe in the extraordinary to believe in the extraordinary.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  If God exists, and he wants storehouses of snow and hail in heavens, then that is what he gets.

Oh that's where snow and hail comes from.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Reptiles turning into birds.

Your understanding of how evolution works is astounding. It astounds me. You astound.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I had a flood in my basement one time. 5,000 years later, what evidence would there be that there was a flood in my basement? Laugh out load

Equating a global disaster to some shit that happened in your basement... Facepalm

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  What kind of evidence to you need of people that once lived in one location, moved to another location?

Oh, right, because that's all that happened in the Exodus story. Wink

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  There have also been tons of Biblical stuff that have been confirmed.

Examples?

Also, can other religions make this claim?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  As if God is bound and subjected to the very laws of nature that he created Laugh out load

Facepalm

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  When you dissect any mammal or reptile, you will find all these different parts that have been configured in specific ways for the body to function properly...now, I can either believe that a magical being with intelligence gave me lungs that I use to breath in the air that is conveniently around me, or eyes to see, ears to hear, feet to walk, fingers to grab/hold objects, etc...I can believe that a magical being with intelligence gave me these things..

or

I can believe that a mindless and blind process, a process that didn't have a CLUE what it was doing, gave me a digestive system, circulatory system, reproductive system, immune system, nervous system, etc.

In order for you to show that you've considered evolution, you have to show a knowledge of how evolution works. You have not shown that yet.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I am sorry, but my common sense won't allow me to believe that a mindless and blind process did all of this. Even if I wasn't a Christian, I wouldn't believe that.

Common sense would allow you to actually research what evolution actually is. Here's some things:

https://sciencebasedlife.wordpress.com/2...responses/
this is actually from a Christian site: http://www.godofevolution.com/the-top-10...on-at-all/

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Well, I don't know of any other religion that takes you all the way back to when the universe was first created. All other religions begins and ends with the universe here, but Judaism accurately confirmed what science has just figured out within the past 100 years, that the universe began to exist at some point in the finite past.

And it also accurately confirmed Goddidit?


(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I was a Christian, I read the Bible several times over, studied many scholarly books, took courses, etc. You, however, are relying solely on the Bible and nothing else. I don’t think I am the one who needs to expand my horizons.

Laugh out load

I had to include her quote here, because I'm just not entirely sure what's so hilarious. Are you laughing because she's wrong, and you don't rely solely on the Bible and nothing? Or are you laughing because you think it's funny that we should suggest that you as a Christian should not rely on the Bible and nothing else?

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29-06-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: I finally told my mom
I'm glad you did that, Walking. I just don't have the patience Smile
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30-06-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: I finally told my mom
This is a tad long. My apologies.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Where do moral values come from? Evolution and societal constructs.

So your moral values comes from a mindless and blind process, and societal constructs that are relative to location, race, age, culture, sex, etc.

Gotcha.

I agree with snake, you really don't get it.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Lions are social creatures too, and also experience pain emotionally and physically. Point?

Are you sure they feel emotional pain? Citation please. I have never heard of one crying.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  And if you purposely reject the one True God true gods by worshiping false gods, and commits sin in the process thus offending God's Shiva's holiness, then you deserve whatever you get from God Shiva.

OK, fixed. Now can you please provide some algorithm that allows us to differentiate between your god and another god? Or even multiple gods? Keep in mind that the early Jews were actually polytheistic.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Argument from silence. Also, assuming that the Bible needs external sources to corroborate it. Matthews account could be true regardless as to whether there is ANY outside sources to corroborate it.

True. However, are you actually suggesting that it is even reasonable to accept a claim as fact that is this extraordinary? Especially since even the other 3 gospels make no mention of an event like this. I agree that this would be extremely compelling if it were true but if it was, do you really think that literally no one would notice this? The claim is so incredible that it demands another source that is not biased. There are literally billions of dead people that suggest an event like this is not possible. If someone claims it did happen, it is essential to corroborate it. Furthermore, the Koran says that Jesus was a prophet and not god. That is the claim and are you going to therefore believe it jest because the account says so? I bet not.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Don’t you think someone would have mentioned this anomaly somewhere in one of the various written sources of the time?

No. This was long before the day of video recordings, news outlets, and social media. So if those saints did come out of their graves, it is highly unlikely that they would have been recognized by the people of that day. If King David came out of his grave, even in his original human form, it isn't as if the average Joe on the street would have said "Do my eyes deceive me, is this not King David??"

No, he wouldn't have known who this guy was, because he NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE. Second, the narrative doesn't even state how many saints were resurrected...how many were there? 3? 5? 10?

Your argument is nonsense. Matthew states that many rose and appeared to many people. If what you said was true, then how the hell did Matthew even know? Your statement is completely silly. The whole point of them rising is to bear witness. You are making your god out to be a real moron if he wants to show his power and yet it makes it so that no one notices. If nobody noticed them, then that makes this story even more stupid.

"Posiden raised every sailor that had drowned in history, and they walked into towns and appeared to many. No one noticed them however as they thought they were just travelers and paid them no attention."

There, that should convince you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Posiden is the ruler of the seas.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  In addition, other biblical supernatural events such as God having storehouses of snow in the heavens have been discounted by science.

Um, Jenny...heaven is far beyond the scopes of man, ok Laugh out load

How do you know that? Were you there?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  What makes you think the dead saints rising and walking into the city account is not just another made up story in the Bible? Magic is not a good enough answer.

Because as a Biblical believing Christian, I don't believe there is anything in the Bible that was "made up". Sure, there are some metaphorical and symbolic passages, but even these passages have some shred of truth to them.

So if the Bhagavad Gita uses some imagery and symbolism, does that mean that Krishna was really an incarnation of Lord Vishnu? How do you tell the difference other than just picking one?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  In what way is the Bible at odds with science? You can’t be serious. Earth created in 7 days.

There are some old earth creationists out there, Jenny.

And they are just as ignorant as the YEC. Your point?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  A talking snake.

Wait a minute, how is the idea of a talking snake any more absurd than inanimate matter suddenly coming to life, and beginning to talk and think?? You have the nerve to sit there and mock Christianity, but have you thought about your own world views?'

Second, if God exists and if he wants a snake to talk, then the snake will talk.

The fact that you said this only demonstrates that you have no idea how evolution works. It takes no nerve to criticize someone who arrogantly acts like they know (i.e. you). It takes nerve to pretend that you know (i.e. you). Ask Jenny if she knows how life began. Ten bucks says it's "I don't know."

Being mute was not part of god's punishment to the snake. So are you saying that he made the snake talk to coerce them into eating the apple?

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Absolutely no evidence of Noah’s flood.

I had a flood in my basement one time. 5,000 years later, what evidence would there be that there was a flood in my basement? Laugh out load

In a considerable list of stupid things you have said, I think that this is in the top 5.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Absolutely no evidence of Exodus.

What kind of evidence to you need of people that once lived in one location, moved to another location?

Read the work by Israel Finkelstein and educate yourself on what archaeologists look for. You just look stupid when you say stuff like that.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Do I think we have full knowledge of everything archaeological from biblical times? No. However, archaeologists have spent years looking for a shred of anything and have come up empty handed for a plethora of biblical events.

There have also been tons of Biblical stuff that have been confirmed.

Citation please? And finding a town that existed does not prove that a jew walked on water no more than the fact that Troy was a real city proves Circe is real.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I understand OEC’s do not interpret Genesis as 7 literal days--but that is not the proper way to be interpreting the text. Any biblical scholar will tell you that God meant 7 literal days.

Some OEC's are Biblical scholars.

But how many are geologists or astronomers? Being a biblical scholar doesn't mean shit in terms of the age/origin of the earth. It just means they study an ancient book. I really doubt you would take medical advice from a scholar of Shakespeare.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  And even if God did mean eons and not days--the passage still doesn’t work.
Sun would have to be created years after plants--which doesn’t work. Stars would have to be created years after Earth, which we know is not how things happened. This is just to name a few issues with the OEC Genesis account--there are more.

As if God is bound and subjected to the very laws of nature that he created Laugh out load

You are saying that god made the universe but made it in such a way that the physical evidence points to something else. That's just stupid.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  We don’t have a viable theory as to how life originated on earth? You are right--evolution is all made up and it all started with a magical being's breath of life...

When you dissect any mammal or reptile, you will find all these different parts that have been configured in specific ways for the body to function properly...now, I can either believe that a magical being with intelligence gave me lungs that I use to breath in the air that is conveniently around me, or eyes to see, ears to hear, feet to walk, fingers to grab/hold objects, etc...I can believe that a magical being with intelligence gave me these things..

or

I can believe that a mindless and blind process, a process that didn't have a CLUE what it was doing, gave me a digestive system, circulatory system, reproductive system, immune system, nervous system, etc.

I am sorry, but my common sense won't allow me to believe that a mindless and blind process did all of this. Even if I wasn't a Christian, I wouldn't believe that.

Again, showing your ignorance. Even in your OR portion, you are still insinuating that there was a conscious force behind it. First, please demonstrate there is a conscious force. Then demonstrate that magic is the force behind it. Good luck.

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Judaism is not the world’s oldest religion.

Well, I don't know of any other religion that takes you all the way back to when the universe was first created. All other religions begins and ends with the universe here, but Judaism accurately confirmed what science has just figured out within the past 100 years, that the universe began to exist at some point in the finite past.

Again, do some homework. There are other religions out there that also claim an origin story. I am not going to do the legwork for you. Don't be lazy.


Edit: This was just too good to let pass:

(27-06-2015 09:29 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  While you wait on science to tell you where that stuff came from, I will be waiting on the return of Jesus...we will see which one comes first.

Jesus will always come first when he has people like you constantly on their knees.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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30-06-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: I finally told my mom
(30-06-2015 09:26 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Jesus will always come first when he has people like you constantly on their knees.

Laugh out load
Oh man, please tell me that's yours. And put that shit on a meme.

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30-06-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: I finally told my mom
(30-06-2015 01:43 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  
(30-06-2015 09:26 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Jesus will always come first when he has people like you constantly on their knees.

Laugh out load
Oh man, please tell me that's yours. And put that shit on a meme.

Well, he did kind of set himself up to that. I am sure that he wasn't the first.

Someone sort of beat me to it. (I need to put this in the pictures section before Pablo steals it.)

[Image: BlowingJesus.jpg]

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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30-06-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: I finally told my mom
You guys are so goin' to hell lol
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30-06-2015, 02:41 PM
RE: I finally told my mom
On a side note, it reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw years ago and was mortified back when I was still a xtian: "Jesus is coming...hold out your tongues."
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04-07-2015, 08:20 PM
RE: I finally told my mom
I always liked (despite its less-graphic nature) "Jesus is coming... everyone try to look busy."

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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