I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
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22-09-2012, 01:49 AM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
I have these sorts of heated arguments with myself sometimes.

The argument itself is frustrating, but the make-up sex is GREAT.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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22-09-2012, 03:09 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2012 03:20 AM by Marco Krieger.)
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
Dear KC,

quite interesting, the little Ray-Line-Analogie of yours.

First thought: I think, if god is a straight line, without a source and end, then he has no in between, so he is not existing.
Seconde thought: You used mathematical-geometric-termes as an analogie to discribe the characteristic of god as a "real being", but mathematics is a tool in theoretical science for abstraction and simplification.
There for infinity in a mathematical sence only existed in theory.

Third thought: Don't you think, an ant whould see the chinese wall as an accurate example for infinity?
I think, if we are growing out of our small, childish point of views, we will see an ocean of space and time, but there are no god's, just big chinese walls.

Last thought on this: We are not rays, we are Line Segmentes, we have a beginning and an end.
We also have an in between, so we are existing. Souls are the nail and hammer to our suppression, invented by people who want to eat without working.
And every Line Segment carry the thought of god and transferes it to the next Line Segment in the straight line.
So came the straight line of god to existence.
So, if a Line Segment is the startpoint of god, then god came as a thought, invented by a Line Segment(human), into the existence.
I think man created god and not otherwise.

It was a kind a pain in the ass to find the correct translations of the geometric termes, but i think i got it right.
This is my source.
Btw, a ray is a line with a source whitout an end. You used it as an analogie to the human soul.
I use the line segment term to discribe a human being as a living person. Thats all i can deal with, reality. That is enough to me.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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23-09-2012, 03:33 AM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
(19-09-2012 10:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If a soul is eternal - goes on forever - there are some major logical issues to deal with:

1) When does a soul become initialized?
2) If a soul is forever, have souls always existed? If so, why do we have no recollection of before life.
3) Since we have no recollection of before life, then it's not far off to say we won't have recollection after life.
4) Eternal = infinite... so, that means there couldn't have been a beginning. If there is no end, then there is no beginning, which brings us back to question 2.
5) If we go on forever, then we will be affected by time... eventually. Eternity, in the confines of time, seems to be miserable.
6) Even if you say that we will be in paradise for all eternity, we are still affected by time; which means, we will eventually be affected negatively. Time affects everything negatively.
The problem is, these are not logical issues. I know of at least one system that is logical and answers these questions meaningfully and much better than the whole Christian theology. The problem is scientific, I mean in verification. You can read up on logical answers, but you'll have no idea of knowing if they're facts. Not unless you find an evidence.
I decided to go along with the best answers I can find because I have a lot of personal and inter-personal experience that confirms them. But I'd argue against anyone else doing so without the experience, even if it would mean disagreeing with me. That's even better, by exploring different models of reality we cover more ground. (by the way, yours had been thoroughly covered for millenia and found barren)

As we say in this capitalist state, we can only jump up to the height of our income. I say, we can only believe up to the height of our evidence, or in my case, thorough experience. That's what I need answers for, to make sense and use of the experience. The whole Bible mythology requires so many vague assumptions so far beyond our experience and possible use, that they're meaningless.
You'd do better to choose a more internally logical belief system. For example, a deep belief that both God and the universe are logical and consistent, and then rejecting all illogical and inconsistent views as not possibly a word of God. Not being full of shit is the least that God can do for us. The next is not disagreeing with reality. The next is agreeing with reality. And the greatest gift God can possibly give, is giving us some advantage over reality, like prediction or greater control, the job that science does.
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23-09-2012, 05:54 AM
 
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
When you die, you will realize that what you considerd "you" was just a dream image of you. You, as you think of you, will not exist anymore than your dream characters exist when you wake up in the morning. What will exist is the only mind that has ever existed, and it has always existed.

You believe in God because it's comfortable for you to believe in a benevolent "other." But such an "other" is not real. There is only God and God is all that has ever been, and God does not have a God.
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23-09-2012, 05:55 AM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
(23-09-2012 05:54 AM)Egor Wrote:  When you die, you will realize that what you considerd "you" was just a dream image of you. You, as you think of you, will not exist anymore than your dream characters exist when you wake up in the morning. What will exist is the only mind that has ever existed, and it has always existed.
Have you died already? Otherwise, how would you know? Consider

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23-09-2012, 11:08 AM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
I think we somehow hurt KC's feelings and he won't come back to answer Sad

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23-09-2012, 11:14 AM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
(23-09-2012 11:08 AM)KVron Wrote:  I think we somehow hurt KC's feelings and he won't come back to answer Sad
I highly doubt that. KC is able to take these kind of punches quite well. Wink

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23-09-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
I was wondering, have Invisible Pink Unicorns always existed, or did God create them as eternal creatures, but they in fact had a beginning?

Let's first assume that they DO exist and ARE eternal creature CREATED by an eternal God who has always existed. (We know this because the Bible says so)

So, the questions is did Unicorns always exist or did God create them at some point as eternal creatures.

Logically (LOL) based on all of our previous assumptions, only God existed before time; therefore, Unicorns as created by God must have had a beginning, even though they are eternal creatures.

Problem solved in just 2 minutes.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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23-09-2012, 12:18 PM
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
(23-09-2012 05:54 AM)Egor Wrote:  When you die, you will realize that what you considerd "you" was just a dream image of you. You, as you think of you, will not exist anymore than your dream characters exist when you wake up in the morning.

Then how I'm gonna realize anything? Huh

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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23-09-2012, 01:19 PM
 
RE: I had a theological debate with myself tonight.
(23-09-2012 12:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-09-2012 05:54 AM)Egor Wrote:  When you die, you will realize that what you considerd "you" was just a dream image of you. You, as you think of you, will not exist anymore than your dream characters exist when you wake up in the morning.

Then how I'm gonna realize anything? Huh

You have a point there. It may well be that the only time "God" is conscious is when He is is conscious through his animal creations. It may be the whole reason we exist to begin with--to manifest God's consciousness in an otherwise unconscious and unobserved universe.
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