I hate autism
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17-12-2012, 09:18 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2012 09:41 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: I hate autism
(17-12-2012 06:29 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm actually sorry I started this thread.

Don't be. It's been quite informative.

(17-12-2012 06:45 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  75% of violent crimes are committed by someone the victim knew- Since I often have little inclination to befriend people, that cuts my chances of being a victim of violence by a considerable amount. Most of the people I routinely interact with are people I do business with, I don't even speak to family.

So all in all, my mortality rate decreases significantly.

No it doesn't. It decreases marginally at most. Odds of you being offed by violent means is already pretty damn slim to begin with, silly. Worry about heart disease, cancer, COPD, stroke, Alzheimer's and diabetes, fool. One of those is likely to kill you.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-12-2012, 01:06 AM
RE: I hate autism
(17-12-2012 06:52 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 04:37 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Dude, it gets easier with practice (and age).

We are all different but if my experiences can give you hope, here are some of my coping mechanisms:
Being a little eccentric / non-typical can have advantages (stand out from the crowd in job interviews).


... people. They trust me with their secrets, because they know I have nobody to tell, I can listen and I can keep secrets (forget).

LOL. Me too.
What were we talking about?

(17-12-2012 06:52 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 04:37 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Often hot chicks are attracted to intellectuals. Learn to fake being an intellectual.

Hey, I am an intellectual! The problem is, I'm not much more than that.

Currently, perhaps. I recommend travel and having loads of girlfriends. Both help you shape your personality.
But, you are already more than that.
In fact, you are everything. Think of yourself as a blank slate.
With age and experience comes the ability to exclude by defining your preferred limits and boundaries.

(17-12-2012 06:52 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 04:37 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Denial (can't speak highly enough about denial).
Learning not to give a shit. 'Detachment' has its downside too but overall, I like it this way.


The only problem here is, that doing this during puberty and high school is a sure way to get bullied a lot, plus lots of other conflicts even with non-bullying kids. It was hell and I'm terribly afraid of ever behaving that unaware again. Now I'm obsessed with increasing awareness and personal transformation, which again, has many benefits, but it's also destroying the old self-image and not yet having a new one. This might be just a phase, I might stabilize once I finish my studies (at least master's, for a beginning) and find a job.


Don't worry about stabilising.
Mastering the ability to re-invent yourself is what counts. There does not need to be a 'new' you that is pre-moulded and waiting to be stepped into. The joy of life is letting the new you evolve.
Each new you is a new chapter. Each chapter is shaped by the context, environment and characters you find around you.
It is hard for the autistic mind to embrace change but each time you do it (shedding your old skin) there is a new you that bursts into life / bursts with life.

(17-12-2012 06:52 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 04:37 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Hone your skills regarding first principles (body language, maths, etymology etc.) the "conscious logical effort" bit gets easier.
Get older. You can get away with a lot more when you are older.

Will do! How old is old enough? I'm 24 now. I'm looking forward to getting a small doctorate someday, then people will have to call me "Mr doctor".

With age comes the assumption (from others) of wisdom and respectability. If that is what is important to you, I'm sure you will achieve it.
Remember to treat these things as milestones not final destinations. There are always more chapters to be read.

(17-12-2012 06:52 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I recommend you to read the original book Starship Troopers by Robert A. Henlein, he foretold this stuff years ago Thumbsup

So it is written, so shall it be.

Amen.

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18-12-2012, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2012 02:20 AM by cufflink.)
RE: I hate autism
(17-12-2012 09:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-12-2012 06:29 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm actually sorry I started this thread.

Don't be. It's been quite informative.

I'll second that. THANK YOU, Momsurrounded..., for starting the thread. It's provided considerable insight, from people with first-hand experience, into this variety of human-beingness.

As a Neural Typical (as far as I know), I have some questions:

I imagine the best-known person with autism, who's had spectacular success in her field, is Temple Grandin. I've read Oliver Sacks's account of his encounter with Grandin in An Anthropologist on Mars, seen the well-received docudrama based on her life, and heard her speak. An impressive person, to say the least. I'm wondering how she's regarded in the autistic community.

I also wonder about emotions. To what extent can autistic people experience love, joy, sorrow, exhilaration the way Neural Typicals do? (Perhaps that question is unanswerable.) Can a particularly sad and beautiful piece of music make you cry? Can you feel the crazy joy of being head-over-heels in love with someone?

And I'm wondering about this:

ScienceGeek2587 Wrote:For Aspies, it can seem insulting for the Neural Typicals to dislike autism, or tell them what we think they need. They have never and will never understand the connection that they are missing, but because they've never understood it, they don't feel it's loss.

It's hard for the Neural Typicals because we know what the Aspies are missing and feel for what they don't know they've lost.

"We feel for what they don't know they've lost." Wow. That brought to mind a poem I learned as a child:


Blind

by Harry Kemp

The Spring blew trumpets of color;
Her Green sang in my brain—
I heard a blind man groping
“Tap—tap” with his cane;

I pitied him in his blindness;
But can I boast, “I see”?
Perhaps there walks a spirit
Close by, who pities me,—

A spirit who hears me tapping
The five-sensed cane of mind
Amid such unguessed glories—
That I am worse than blind.


So we Neural Typicals feel for what people on the spectrum can't experience . . . but is there another side of that coin? Is it possible that Aspies and Autists (if that's the correct term) are able to have experiences that we NT's can't, feel things we'll never feel?

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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18-12-2012, 02:48 AM
RE: I hate autism
(18-12-2012 02:12 AM)cufflink Wrote:  ...
I also wonder about emotions. To what extent can autistic people experience love, joy, sorrow, exhilaration the way Neural Typicals do? (Perhaps that question is unanswerable.) Can a particularly sad and beautiful piece of music make you cry? Can you feel the crazy joy of being head-over-heels in love with someone?
...

Consider

I watched a blind man chalking pavements in the rain.

I love her
I know I do.


Splashed red lips,
Mascara running,
Rivulets of platinum blonde;
Marilyn Monroe in
chalky water colour on
a stone slab pool.

I watched a blind man chalking pavements in the rain.

I love her
I know I do.
I cannot say it
I scarcely feel it
yet
I want it to be true.


The picture is in
his mind
His fingers feel
her curves
In... sight;
His achievement is his own

I love her,
I know I do
and
she will never see it.


I watched a blind man chalking pavements in the rain.

I love her,
I know I do.


DLJ

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18-12-2012, 01:25 PM
RE: I hate autism
This is worth reading:

Don't Blame Autism for Newtown

I found this paragraph particularly relevant to our discussion, backing up what's already been expressed above:

"Underlying much of this misreporting is the pernicious and outdated stereotype that people with autism lack empathy. Children with autism may have trouble understanding the motivations and nonverbal cues of others, be socially naïve and have difficulty expressing their emotions in words, but they are typically more truthful and less manipulative than neurotypical children and are often people of great integrity. They can also have a strong desire to connect with others and they can be intensely empathetic — they just attempt those connections and express that empathy in unconventional ways. My child with autism, in fact, is the most empathetic and honorable of my three wonderful children."

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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18-12-2012, 01:51 PM
RE: I hate autism
Same here. I heard it on the news and couldn't help but wonder if there was even one grain of truth to it. Although, I do know a few autistic kids who have older parents.

(15-12-2012 10:45 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  My husband and I were both under 35 when our kids were conceived. I'm always kinda leery when studies like this come out, unless I can read the actual study.
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18-12-2012, 03:11 PM
RE: I hate autism
(18-12-2012 02:12 AM)cufflink Wrote:  As a Neural Typical (as far as I know), I have some questions:

I imagine the best-known person with autism, who's had spectacular success in her field, is Temple Grandin. I've read Oliver Sacks's account of his encounter with Grandin in An Anthropologist on Mars, seen the well-received docudrama based on her life, and heard her speak. An impressive person, to say the least. I'm wondering how she's regarded in the autistic community.
I'll dare to answer, because I know a little about it. From the interviews with her I've gathered that she is highly intelligent and completely devoted to her work. Not just the animals, I've heard her talking with passion and competence about the problems of autistic community, particularly the new DSM 5 manual that nobody really wants, because it's badly designed. It removes estabilished diagnoses and replaces them with more symptomatic, superficial, divided and otherwise badly classified "diagnoses". Not only it may result in confusion of those who have Asperger's syndrome but can not get the diagnosis anymore, it may actually cause many children and others lose the therapy and support that the standard diagnosis provides. So it could be said, she's a hero and a fighter for our rights Smile When you listen to her, notice her voice. It seems to have this blunt, straightforward quality, similar to David Finch, author of the Journal of Best Practices.

(18-12-2012 02:12 AM)cufflink Wrote:  I also wonder about emotions. To what extent can autistic people experience love, joy, sorrow, exhilaration the way Neural Typicals do? (Perhaps that question is unanswerable.) Can a particularly sad and beautiful piece of music make you cry? Can you feel the crazy joy of being head-over-heels in love with someone?
And I'm wondering about this:
ScienceGeek2587 Wrote:For Aspies, it can seem insulting for the Neural Typicals to dislike autism, or tell them what we think they need. They have never and will never understand the connection that they are missing, but because they've never understood it, they don't feel it's loss.
It's hard for the Neural Typicals because we know what the Aspies are missing and feel for what they don't know they've lost.
As I said, I'm very high-functioning and deeply engaged in social, psychologic and spiritual studies and explorations, so I have an idea of what's missing. But I didn't know the others around regretted it too. The following may seem like a sob story, but it's not like I think of it often and it might give you some useful answers.

I'm sure I can feel a broad range of emotions, including falling in love. The problem is, the social life you enjoy is based on smaller, low intensity emotions, you may imagine them as a small change of coins. Social chitchat and just hanging out, that's like exchanging the coins, it's fun, you can do it every day and it's not a big deal.
Then there are big banknotes of strong and extraordinary emotions. You don't exchange these in everyday life. These are paid with on meetings and demonstrations for a cause, or during mystical contemplations, or in depths of depression, or perhaps in a very close relationship. I'm very short on loose change, I've got no supply of short gossips that I could exchange like a currency. I like to listen and laugh along sometimes, but active social life, I don't do that. I do either nothing, or get obsessive over one thing.

So basically, as long as it's a strong emotion, I deal in it. Except perhaps anger and exhilaration, but that's individual. I have a very strong response to a right kind of music, all emotions you've defined, up to mystical ecstasy. I think it's a form of self-medication. Generally, I think the emotions are intense due to a great inward focus (think of a contemplating Buddhist monk) and they're also very solitary, non-social. I can feel love towards humanity as a whole or towards my nation, and towards particular people, but there's not much between that. Of course, I can feel good will towards just about anything and anyone, but lacking the emotion, I also lack a way to express it or feel what other people need, so I tend to think of most practical and logical actions. Think of volunteering for some charity or helping out around the house.

Also, I knew an aspie girl, she was the most empathic person I knew. So emotionally sensitive, that she suffered with every transgression against the natural environment or people's rights. Even was strongly against all sorts of corporations and got into trouble over some anti-corporate vandalism. (perhaps she didn't know how to express herself...legally) Also she was through some bad relationships, but seemed to be really good at falling into new ones. I might be similar, if I wasn't much more cerebral. For years I lived with my emotions practically shut down, as a protection from bullying. So that's why there's not much of them left, I had to cut them off and it became more than a habit. I don't know how these things work, or if anything can be done about it, I definitely want to ask a psychologist. I think alcohol makes me much more normal, social, better person, but I rarely drink. I'm Mr Hyde, my drunk self is the poor Dr Jekyll trapped inside Wink
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18-12-2012, 03:44 PM
RE: I hate autism
(18-12-2012 01:25 PM)cufflink Wrote:  This is worth reading:

Don't Blame Autism for Newtown

I found this paragraph particularly relevant to our discussion, backing up what's already been expressed above:

"Underlying much of this misreporting is the pernicious and outdated stereotype that people with autism lack empathy. Children with autism may have trouble understanding the motivations and nonverbal cues of others, be socially naïve and have difficulty expressing their emotions in words, but they are typically more truthful and less manipulative than neurotypical children and are often people of great integrity. They can also have a strong desire to connect with others and they can be intensely empathetic — they just attempt those connections and express that empathy in unconventional ways. My child with autism, in fact, is the most empathetic and honorable of my three wonderful children."

My son is rather like this. He is very honest in fact he can't lie worth a shit (he was with my husband when they bought my Christmas gift and he tried to say that he didn't know). He understands that their are good lies (no, mom that dress doesn't make your ass look like the moon -- lol). But he's far more likely to just walk away. When I'm feeling sad about something, he'll just touch my hand. He cried a little when his grandfather died (they were very close) and for months after, he'd remark that he'll never see him again. I explained that it was ok -- as long as he didn't forget about him. He's also quite atheist in his beliefs -- but naturally so and not because of my influence.
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18-12-2012, 03:50 PM
RE: I hate autism
Thank you for that, Lumi. You seem to have a remarkable sense of self-awareness that few people, Aspie or otherwise, can match.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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18-12-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: I hate autism
I read the new criteria for autism (that I guess comes out next year) my son does qualify still. But there are plenty of people that will be more or less without help. Asperger's for example just goes away. Oh and Asperger's by the way, doesn't mean "mild" autism. It's not easier. Ive met quite a few Asperger kids that are far worse off than my son...just as there are some classic autistic kids that have different issues than my son.

Just like classic autism doesn't mean they all have a hidden savant quality.


For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside,
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive -- Badlands; Bruce Springsteen

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