I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
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25-07-2016, 06:22 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 06:25 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 06:07 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Thank you for the clarification.

But let me entertain few more ideas on the subject....

If , let's say, I convert to Judaism...would that make me a Jew?

But then , if, after some time being Jewish I become an atheist again , could I then refer to myself as a cultural Jew?

Correct. We'd still regard you as a Jew. It's just the same as becoming a citizen of a new country. Regardless of how you become American, once you have citizenship here, you're 100% American until the day you die, even if you later move to North Korea and become a communist.

I managed to offend a bunch of atheists on this site a few months back by suggesting that Jews consider converts to be the exact same as a natural born Jew, as such that if you choose later become an atheist, we would still regard you as a Jew. You could call yourself a cultural Jew, or a Jew, a non-Jew, or an atheist, or anything you want. Really, no one would be keeping tabs on you. Smile

You know, thinking about it , if I became an American citizen I would still consider myself as Serbian American , never just American, I think. Becoming American citizen wouldn`t make me any less of a Serb.

On the other hand you can never become Serbian if you are not born as Serbian, regardless of citizenship that you can acquire. It is like that for most countries, I believe.
I can live in Japan for as long as I want and become a citizen but referring to myself as Japanese would be ridiculous.

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25-07-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 05:04 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ordo - I'm an armchair quarterback. I enjoy watching football from the comfort of my lazy boy recliner.

When the guys at work talk about other quarterbacks, I feel slighted because I don't think they see me as a real quarterback.

I'm not seeing your point Rahn?

I don't think those things are equal?

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25-07-2016, 06:33 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 06:01 AM)julep Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 06:25 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Correct. We'd still regard you as a Jew. It's just the same as becoming a citizen of a new country. Regardless of how you become American, once you have citizenship here, you're 100% American until the day you die, even if you later move to North Korea and become a communist.

I managed to offend a bunch of atheists on this site a few months back by suggesting that Jews consider converts to be the exact same as a natural born Jew, as such that if you choose later become an atheist, we would still regard you as a Jew. You could call yourself a cultural Jew, or a Jew, a non-Jew, or an atheist, or anything you want. Really, no one would be keeping tabs on you. Smile

This practice rubs me the wrong way entirely. It's saying to a person, you don't get to define yourself, I'm going to define you. Some Christians view me as still Christian because I accepted Jesus as my savior when I was 5 and was eventually baptized; I find that position condescending and offensive. If I knew an American who had renounced their citizenship, moved to N. Korea, etc., I would not call that person an American.

I can understand how someone who does not want to be defined by their ethnic or cultural background would be offended by the term Cultural Jew. I don't want to be called a Cultural Christian, and even though there's an argument that this is an accurate descriptor, I would consider it a deliberate insult, if someone refused to stop calling me a Cultural Christian after I had asked them not to do so.


A Very Good Thought Smile

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25-07-2016, 07:08 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 07:15 AM by Aliza.)
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 06:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 06:25 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Correct. We'd still regard you as a Jew. It's just the same as becoming a citizen of a new country. Regardless of how you become American, once you have citizenship here, you're 100% American until the day you die, even if you later move to North Korea and become a communist.

I managed to offend a bunch of atheists on this site a few months back by suggesting that Jews consider converts to be the exact same as a natural born Jew, as such that if you choose later become an atheist, we would still regard you as a Jew. You could call yourself a cultural Jew, or a Jew, a non-Jew, or an atheist, or anything you want. Really, no one would be keeping tabs on you. Smile

You know, thinking about it , if I became an American citizen I would still consider myself as Serbian American , never just American, I think. Becoming American citizen wouldn`t make me any less of a Serb.

On the other hand you can never become Serbian if you are not born as Serbian, regardless of citizenship that you can acquire. It is like that for most countries, I believe.
I can live in Japan for as long as I want and become a citizen but referring to myself as Japanese would be ridiculous.

If you were to move to the US and become a citizen, then legally you're 100% American. Your citizenship elsewhere does not take away from your status as an American, and how you regard yourself (Serbian-American) is your own personal business. These matters are cultural and not legally regulated.

Judaism is not like Christianity. It's not something that you feel. It's something that you are. How you regard yourself and whether you believe in the national faith is a different matter entirely.
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25-07-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:08 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 06:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  You know, thinking about it , if I became an American citizen I would still consider myself as Serbian American , never just American, I think. Becoming American citizen wouldn`t make me any less of a Serb.

On the other hand you can never become Serbian if you are not born as Serbian, regardless of citizenship that you can acquire. It is like that for most countries, I believe.
I can live in Japan for as long as I want and become a citizen but referring to myself as Japanese would be ridiculous.

If you were to move to the US and become a citizen, then legally you're 100% American. How you regard yourself is your own personal business. Judaism is not like Christianity. It's not something that you feel. It's something that you are. How you regard yourself and whether you believe in the national faith is a different matter entirely.

Well said Smile

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25-07-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
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25-07-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 05:04 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ordo - I'm an armchair quarterback. I enjoy watching football from the comfort of my lazy boy recliner.

When the guys at work talk about other quarterbacks, I feel slighted because I don't think they see me as a real quarterback.

You know i'm just going to guess at your meaning and i'll use you own analogy to refute itself

I'm not a arm chair quarterback iv'e been in the game 24 years. Hell i come from a long line of quarterbacks. And many of my relatives have played in the big leagues (been rabbi's). I also wanted to play in the big leagues but the team but had to switch teams (change affiliations) to do so .I still go to quarterback meeting's still eat quarterback food i have fought and will fight for quarterback rights . Just because no longer believe in the good luck charms (no offense to those who do) or believe that sports illustrated is the mystical history of quarterbacks .Doesn't change the fact i have played the game and well i think.

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25-07-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
"Cultural" or "secular" can be applied to any religion. You can like the traditions but not literally believe in the gods or heros of that religion. Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and Christianity are all religions. There can be pockets of people who simply go through the motions without buying everything about them.

Religions are religions, regardless of an individual's interpretations or cherry picking parts of them.

None of those labels are races, or ethic or nationalities or even "philosophies". There has never been one religion in human history that has not had it's competing sub sects that don't agree on the interpretation or how to follow the umbrella label or it's writings or holy people.

Religions are all artificial constructs humans use as excuses to set up social order rooted in the ignorance of antiquity and superstition, regardless if some individuals scrap the fantastic claims. Our species is much older than any written religion, and our planet and universe have been around far longer. Humans are NOT special to this planet nor does the universe care if we exist or not.

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25-07-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  "Cultural" or "secular" can be applied to any religion. You can like the traditions but not literally believe in the gods or heros of that religion. Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and Christianity are all religions. There can be pockets of people who simply go through the motions without buying everything about them.

Religions are religions, regardless of an individual's interpretations or cherry picking parts of them.

None of those labels are races, or ethic or nationalities or even "philosophies". There has never been one religion in human history that has not had it's competing sub sects that don't agree on the interpretation or how to follow the umbrella label or it's writings or holy people.

Religions are all artificial constructs humans use as excuses to set up social order rooted in the ignorance of antiquity and superstition, regardless if some individuals scrap the fantastic claims. Our species is much older than any written religion, and our planet and universe have been around far longer. Humans are NOT special to this planet nor does the universe care if we exist or not.

Yet another interesting perspectiveSmile

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25-07-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:08 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 06:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  You know, thinking about it , if I became an American citizen I would still consider myself as Serbian American , never just American, I think. Becoming American citizen wouldn`t make me any less of a Serb.

On the other hand you can never become Serbian if you are not born as Serbian, regardless of citizenship that you can acquire. It is like that for most countries, I believe.
I can live in Japan for as long as I want and become a citizen but referring to myself as Japanese would be ridiculous.

If you were to move to the US and become a citizen, then legally you're 100% American. Your citizenship elsewhere does not take away from your status as an American, and how you regard yourself (Serbian-American) is your own personal business. These matters are cultural and not legally regulated.

Judaism is not like Christianity. It's not something that you feel. It's something that you are. How you regard yourself and whether you believe in the national faith is a different matter entirely.

Yeah, I understand , I was talking about cultural, person aspect more then a legal one.

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