I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
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25-07-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:29 AM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 05:04 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ordo - I'm an armchair quarterback. I enjoy watching football from the comfort of my lazy boy recliner.

When the guys at work talk about other quarterbacks, I feel slighted because I don't think they see me as a real quarterback.

You know i'm just going to guess at your meaning and i'll use you own analogy to refute itself

I'm not a arm chair quarterback iv'e been in the game 24 years. Hell i come from a long line of quarterbacks. And many of my relatives have played in the big leagues (been rabbi's). I also wanted to play in the big leagues but the team but had to switch teams (change affiliations) to do so .I still go to quarterback meeting's still eat quarterback food i have fought and will fight for quarterback rights . Just because no longer believe in the good luck charms (no offense to those who do) or believe that sports illustrated is the mystical history of quarterbacks .Doesn't change the fact i have played the game and well i think.

Big Grin ROFL

I also eat quarterback food! I love quarterback food! I also fight for quarterback rights!

Honestly, though, if the Orthodox would have allowed me to become a Rabbi, I would have probably gone that route. I get the reasoning behind it traditionally and I totally get that it's not driven by sexist motives, but Judaism should be growing with the community, not stunting it. I fail to see what's wrong with giving ordination to ladies when we have our own minyans, and our own halachic obligations. We can and should be managing ourselves with our own Rabbinate.

And no, Rebbetizins don't count because they didn't earn it.
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25-07-2016, 08:25 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 09:07 AM by OrdoSkeptica.)
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
Thou i have to confess that i have cheated once or twice when i was still confused about what i believed and who i was (curse you bacon) thou now i stick to it

I too see the need for them to want to maintain the traditions of old .And it's not at all sexist but it is destructive if Judaism is to survive as community .As for becoming a Rabbi my goodness is it tough it really gives you whole new appreciation for those who do it . It's really something i'm kind of sad i never finished .

Too right just because you married a Rabbi doesn't make you one

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25-07-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:40 AM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 07:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  "Cultural" or "secular" can be applied to any religion. You can like the traditions but not literally believe in the gods or heros of that religion. Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and Christianity are all religions. There can be pockets of people who simply go through the motions without buying everything about them.

Religions are religions, regardless of an individual's interpretations or cherry picking parts of them.

None of those labels are races, or ethic or nationalities or even "philosophies". There has never been one religion in human history that has not had it's competing sub sects that don't agree on the interpretation or how to follow the umbrella label or it's writings or holy people.

Religions are all artificial constructs humans use as excuses to set up social order rooted in the ignorance of antiquity and superstition, regardless if some individuals scrap the fantastic claims. Our species is much older than any written religion, and our planet and universe have been around far longer. Humans are NOT special to this planet nor does the universe care if we exist or not.

Yet another interesting perspectiveSmile

Shouldn't be "interesting" it should be accepted fact. Science shows that our planet and solar system and universe has never cared about us and is not capable of such because it is not a living thing itself, nor is there a cosmic wizard pulling our strings. Humans invent religions and gods as gap answers and are really nothing more than products of human's imaginations.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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25-07-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
I understand what the OP is saying and I can appreciate how frustrating it must be to be told by practicing Jews that he or she is not "Jewish enough" in their eyes. I guess my response is, so what? Fuck 'em!

My wife refers to herself as "culturally Jewish," and when pressed on the matter tells people she, "would've been Jewish enough for Hitler." What she essentially means is that she embraces the culture, the history, the struggle, and the contributions Jews have made to society. She's proud of these things. The degree to which she does or does not embrace Judaism as a faith is not material to whether she's "a Jew" or not. I wouldn't say she has a "faith" or set of beliefs beyond just the vague feeling that there's something "more than human" in the universe. We're raising our children to value science, inquiry, curiosity, evidence, humanity, kindness, generosity, etc. We want them to know the history of their people, of all the sides of their family. Whether they end up practicing Jews or not is not really a concern or goal of ours. We neither encourage nor discourage it.
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25-07-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 06:00 PM)Aliza Wrote:  You are 100% Jewish if you were born to a Jewish mother, or if you converted in an orthodox conversion. If you were born to a Jewish father, and a gentile mother, or you converted non-orthodox, then you're considered Jewish only in that denomination, but not necessarily in the state of Israel.

Its been my experience that people use the term "cultural Jew" to convey to others that they don't believe religiously but they still consider themselves to be a part of the Jewish community. If you don't care for the term, then don't use it and just call yourself a Jew. Most Jews today are agnostic and don't pay much mind to Torah Laws, so they probably don't really care what you believe anyway.

And if that doesn't work, tell them to fuck off. Smartass

My friend is Jewish, orthodox by birth but mostly non-practicing conservative Jew (I guess there was a lack of Orthodox Jews in his area) That said, he said recently that he considers himself more cultural than traditional or orthodox. They do Passover and other high holidays to remember but not because they believe it. They also do "Shabbat" each week but, it's more of a family reconnect time than a ritual to them. For about 25 hours, he says the cell phones and computers are off, they watch family movies or plan outings, picnics -- they also cook meals together. He doesn't allow his wife to clean house or do laundry -- it's strictly for family stuff.

They do tend to keep kosher too inside their home -- because he sees that as part of his culture, but not so that they can't go out to eat or enjoy a meal at a friend's house.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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25-07-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 10:33 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I understand what the OP is saying and I can appreciate how frustrating it must be to be told by practicing Jews that he or she is not "Jewish enough" in their eyes. I guess my response is, so what? Fuck 'em!

My wife refers to herself as "culturally Jewish," and when pressed on the matter tells people she, "would've been Jewish enough for Hitler." What she essentially means is that she embraces the culture, the history, the struggle, and the contributions Jews have made to society. She's proud of these things. The degree to which she does or does not embrace Judaism as a faith is not material to whether she's "a Jew" or not. I wouldn't say she has a "faith" or set of beliefs beyond just the vague feeling that there's something "more than human" in the universe. We're raising our children to value science, inquiry, curiosity, evidence, humanity, kindness, generosity, etc. We want them to know the history of their people, of all the sides of their family. Whether they end up practicing Jews or not is not really a concern or goal of ours. We neither encourage nor discourage it.

Beautifully said my friendHeart

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25-07-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
I admit to being confused until I looked up what a Rebbetizin was. For a moment I was like "OS married a Rabbi? I wonder how that sort of marriage works between a non-believer and a clergy member". Then after googling Rebbetizins, realized that she was replying to Aliza's mention of them.

Yay for learning things!

Need to think of a witty signature.
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25-07-2016, 07:35 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:15 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I admit to being confused until I looked up what a Rebbetizin was. For a moment I was like "OS married a Rabbi? I wonder how that sort of marriage works between a non-believer and a clergy member". Then after googling Rebbetizins, realized that she was replying to Aliza's mention of them.

Yay for learning things!

In Judaism, belief is not quite as important as observance in distinguishing who is and is not "religious". It's not about what you think, it's about what you do.

Every Rabbi I know is married to an equally observant wife. If one lost their desire to observe, I would have to imagine that the couple may want to consider a divorce. Jewish observance is extremely cumbersome and a lifestyle difference of that magnitude would probably take its toll on a marriage.
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25-07-2016, 07:42 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:35 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 07:15 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I admit to being confused until I looked up what a Rebbetizin was. For a moment I was like "OS married a Rabbi? I wonder how that sort of marriage works between a non-believer and a clergy member". Then after googling Rebbetizins, realized that she was replying to Aliza's mention of them.

Yay for learning things!

In Judaism, belief is not quite as important as observance in distinguishing who is and is not "religious". It's not about what you think, it's about what you do.

Every Rabbi I know is married to an equally observant wife. If one lost their desire to observe, I would have to imagine that the couple may want to consider a divorce. Jewish observance is extremely cumbersome and a lifestyle difference of that magnitude would probably take its toll on a marriage.

Or they keep their lack of belief to themselves.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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25-07-2016, 07:47 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 05:53 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  
Quote:Not really following what you're saying. Being Jewish has nothing to do with G-d. It's a birth right, or something that you convert into. I think you're acknowledging that in your post, but I'm just not sure where you're going with this. Please clarify. Smile

My point is this i don't see why i should be given a separate (i believe condescending) title. That your only a real Jew if you accept our heritage in a religious way rather then as a historic identity.(that includes converts) I,m hope that makes things a little clearer Smile

You're given a separate label, to distinguish the fact that you're not a religious Jew.

You can use the term ethnic Jew, Jewish atheists, to the same effect.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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