I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
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25-07-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 07:35 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 07:15 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I admit to being confused until I looked up what a Rebbetizin was. For a moment I was like "OS married a Rabbi? I wonder how that sort of marriage works between a non-believer and a clergy member". Then after googling Rebbetizins, realized that she was replying to Aliza's mention of them.

Yay for learning things!

In Judaism, belief is not quite as important as observance in distinguishing who is and is not "religious". It's not about what you think, it's about what you do.

Every Rabbi I know is married to an equally observant wife. If one lost their desire to observe, I would have to imagine that the couple may want to consider a divorce. Jewish observance is extremely cumbersome and a lifestyle difference of that magnitude would probably take its toll on a marriage.

Huh, neat! Thanks for the clarification. Thumbsup

Need to think of a witty signature.
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25-07-2016, 10:44 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 06:53 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  i still think the title is unneeded and ultimately negative when the term Jew itself is enough without further need to explain or justify ones self

I disagree. I think the title is needed when one is an atheist but still identifies with Judaism culturally.
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25-07-2016, 11:00 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 06:54 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism considers itself to be a culture, a religion and a nationality (but not a race).

Okay, I see where you're coming from, now. The links and quotes you provided are using quite a different definition of 'nationality' than the one I had in mind. I was thinking along the lines of 'Canadian', 'American', 'Australian' etc (ie belonging to a particular country) rather than the ethnic/tribal definition (eg. 'Sioux Nation').
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26-07-2016, 04:48 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2016 04:57 AM by OrdoSkeptica.)
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
So many awesome comments i never would have thought this would strike so much interestSmile

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26-07-2016, 08:29 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 05:17 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  I loathe this term within the Jewish community it's almost an accusation it's like saying oh sure you love our culture language and our accomplishments and revere our struggle over the centuries to be free and safe. But because you don't inter prate our history mystically then you really aren't one of us you just a partial Jew. And i'm shocked at Jews who are unbelieving who embrace this title .

From outsiders it feels the same it seems there saying you are less Jewish because being Jewish is defined by believing in god. But from my current view of my people i see more i see an ancient people who have endure centuries of brutal oppression and have learned and risen from it .To be a powerhouse in science ,economics ,law,technology and medicine and have enriched the world in each. I don't have to believe in magic to take pride in those accomplishments and i do.

A teacher of mine put it this way The ancients tried to break us .They failed the Romans tried they failed. The Christians tried they failed.Islam tried they failed. Hitler better then you have tried and failed.We made it here and mysticism had nothing to do with it. It was done by the sacrifice of millions and might require the sacrifice of more. But when will we see it has always been men weak and great that have steered our destiny not magic not prayers not ancient parchments.Men

Why can't people just refer to you by name and that be enough?

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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27-07-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(26-07-2016 08:29 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 05:17 PM)OrdoSkeptica Wrote:  I loathe this term within the Jewish community it's almost an accusation it's like saying oh sure you love our culture language and our accomplishments and revere our struggle over the centuries to be free and safe. But because you don't inter prate our history mystically then you really aren't one of us you just a partial Jew. And i'm shocked at Jews who are unbelieving who embrace this title .

From outsiders it feels the same it seems there saying you are less Jewish because being Jewish is defined by believing in god. But from my current view of my people i see more i see an ancient people who have endure centuries of brutal oppression and have learned and risen from it .To be a powerhouse in science ,economics ,law,technology and medicine and have enriched the world in each. I don't have to believe in magic to take pride in those accomplishments and i do.

A teacher of mine put it this way The ancients tried to break us .They failed the Romans tried they failed. The Christians tried they failed.Islam tried they failed. Hitler better then you have tried and failed.We made it here and mysticism had nothing to do with it. It was done by the sacrifice of millions and might require the sacrifice of more. But when will we see it has always been men weak and great that have steered our destiny not magic not prayers not ancient parchments.Men

Why can't people just refer to you by name and that be enough?

Some people just want to feel that they belong. -Especially that they belong to the group that they were raised in, and are not choosing to leave. I can totally get how some people are perfectly content shedding a label that they didn't like in the first place, but I don't think OrdoSkeptica's situation is quite like that. She's not voluntarily shedding it at all. Against her wishes, other people are trying to water down her association to her own people.
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27-07-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(27-07-2016 11:10 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 08:29 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  Why can't people just refer to you by name and that be enough?

Some people just want to feel that they belong. -Especially that they belong to the group that they were raised in, and are not choosing to leave. I can totally get how some people are perfectly content shedding a label that they didn't like in the first place, but I don't think OrdoSkeptica's situation is quite like that. She's not voluntarily shedding it at all. Against her wishes, other people are trying to water down her association to her own people.

Nail on the head
I think you got my post better then anyone so far. Thou i admit others have made points that i did not originally think about in my starting post .(the beauty of a forum ) But still you articulated it better then i think even i did in said post .


thank you Smile

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27-07-2016, 04:28 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 06:07 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 05:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  It's a nationality and a religion. You can be Jewish without believing in G-d, just as you can be American without being patriotic. Yes, if you're an atheist and a Jew, you might identify yourself as a cultural Jew.

Thank you for the clarification.

But let me entertain few more ideas on the subject....

If , let's say, I convert to Judaism...would that make me a Jew?

But then , if, after some time being Jewish I become an atheist again , could I then refer to myself as a cultural Jew?

An ex-Jew, a recovering Jew? I have heard it all, and we even have on the other side of things a Seventh-Day-Atheists group on the internet.
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27-07-2016, 04:31 PM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(25-07-2016 11:00 PM)crocdoc Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 06:54 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism considers itself to be a culture, a religion and a nationality (but not a race).

Okay, I see where you're coming from, now. The links and quotes you provided are using quite a different definition of 'nationality' than the one I had in mind. I was thinking along the lines of 'Canadian', 'American', 'Australian' etc (ie belonging to a particular country) rather than the ethnic/tribal definition (eg. 'Sioux Nation').

I once read a treatise that was aimed at showing that the Jews had been a nation for centuries, but finally came to have a State (or be a state) in 1946 (or was it 47?)
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28-07-2016, 07:15 AM
RE: I hate the term "Cultural Jew"
(24-07-2016 06:07 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 05:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  It's a nationality and a religion. You can be Jewish without believing in G-d, just as you can be American without being patriotic. Yes, if you're an atheist and a Jew, you might identify yourself as a cultural Jew.

Thank you for the clarification.

But let me entertain few more ideas on the subject....

If , let's say, I convert to Judaism...would that make me a Jew?

But then , if, after some time being Jewish I become an atheist again , could I then refer to myself as a cultural Jew?

I believe the specificity of that waivers on if you turn in your library card or not.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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