I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
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25-04-2016, 06:27 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2016 03:04 PM by Mittens Deluxe.)
I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
I'm not trying to take the piss out of that other guy, I was just reading what he said and I felt like I could really relate. When I take a stance on an issue, I often feel like the stance I'm taking is smart because the people who I heard it from I agree with. When it comes to actually trying to back myself up in an argument, I find that it's very difficult to defend what I'm saying, because people often come at you from totally different angles you've never heard from. So there's really no way to defend yourself from that sort of thing.

I don't know if it's a testament of my own inability to think, or lack of motivation to be so knowledgeable on a subject that I could school someone in a debate. I think it's mostly the later, but it's true that I often leave an argument feeling like I really don't know much about what I'm talking about, when it comes to politics. Hell, I said that America's prisons raise and lower their government income based on how many prisoners they have, so prisons have incentive to incarcerate more people, yet someone tells me that's a load of bullshit! It's just what I've heard, how can that be bullshit? I've heard it so many times, but I guess that's what happens when you have other people tell you information. There's really no way to be independently knowledgeable, you'd have to have some sort of unattainable psychic esq knowledge so you know where to look and relevant information.

I just don't feel like a very smart person in general, that's another thing that reading that poor guy's post made me think of. I definitely don't want to kill myself because of it, but I did do horrible in school and find math to be so agonizingly boring, I can hardly even do basic math problems like dividing, let alone algebra. It sucks, I actually feel so jealous of people who are smart and good at math I want to beat them up, like some mongoloid school yard bully who picks on people because of his insecurities.

I mean, I know that one of the worst things you can do is hold your self up to someone else and compare, but it's kind of hard not to. I really do feel uneducated, unintelligent, I often feel like that's one thing I wish I had more of, intelligence.

I'm sorry to just go on and on and on about this, but I'm just going to take up as much space as I feel is enough to get my thoughts out. I'm disadvantaged in this world. Because artistically I know I have talent, I know that one of my biggest strengths is spacial visual thinking, I am great at anything that involves creativity and artistic talent. I've always excelled at that. The thing is, I don't want to go into an art field. That whole field has low job security, it requires you to work for someone else and do artwork that is commissioned of you, or it requires you to work independently and have no job security at all. It's haunting to me, to think that my biggest strength is worthless.

I'm creative in so many aspects, I wouldn't trade my love of art and music and ability for the ability to do many or be a really excellent debater, but man I just wish I had something that put me ahead in life. It's too difficult, and you wanna know the worst part of it all? I have no motivation to do art anymore. I don't even like drawing anymore and I have hardly any motivation to do really anything in life, because I feel every single day, a deep sucking nihilism inside of me, which just tells me that everything's pointless. It's been there for years and years and years, probably since early high school. It sucks. It's just insulting to me that in my mind I can picture myself being happy, but it seems unfeasible to attain it.
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25-04-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
There is a lot to live for. As far as we know, this is your only life. Do what you can to make it awesome.

I'm not the best debater either. I just stay away from debating people if I can.

Is it possible to ask your teacher for help, look up how to do the math, or seek a tutor? Or do you not even want to do it? You did say that you find it boring. To me, it sounds like you want to know how to it. In the end, do your best.

I'm thinking that it would be good to find something that does bring you excitement and motivation. If things are still looking bleak, it would be good to get help from professionals.

Hang in there. Hug
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25-04-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
(25-04-2016 06:56 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  There is a lot to live for. As far as we know, this is your only life. Do what you can to make it awesome.

I'm not the best debater either. I just stay away from debating people if I can.

Is it possible to ask your teacher for help, look up how to do the math, or seek a tutor? Or do you not even want to do it? You did say that you find it boring. To me, it sounds like you want to know how to it. In the end, do your best.

I'm thinking that it would be good to find something that does bring you excitement and motivation. If things are still looking bleak, it would be good to get help from professionals.

Hang in there. Hug
Aw, thanks. Well, yeah it's not that I'm like, sobbing and curling into a ball, I'm past that! Sorta, lol. I've been feeling fine lately, I've had a year to live alone to sort out what's going on inside my head, but I was not okay by any means a year or two ago. I'm not much of a crier... but yeah. I'm well out of high school. I didn't mention, but I've tried college 3 times. I just lack the motivation to do that, it's so painful for me to try to do the assignments, the emptiness just sucks the energy out of me, I have like an impulsive disgust for doing really boring stuff.

Seeing as most colleges won't really accept me unless it's a community college, and I can't get a job unless it's a minimum wage job, I'm fucked. I live off my parents right now, but I'm in for some soul crushing days if I think I'm going to live independently. There's not really much advantage that I have, because I'm not a good productive worker. I don't think I'm really all that smart either. I'm also insanely fucking lonely, but that's another topic all in it's own.

It's a good thing I realized that it's all the state of mind you put yourself, I've been getting better at controlling my thoughts lately. Having so much time to live alone and not being in a state of violent mental turmoil has really changed the way I think. There's still a lot of me that is not good, but I do see a psychologist a couple times a week. I'm not sure how they can help me with that others stuff, I'm a bit too lazy to reiterate what that other stuff in particular is but I mentioned it in this post.
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25-04-2016, 08:58 PM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I'm not trying to take the piss out of that other guy, I was just reading what he said and I felt like I could really related. When I take a stance on an issue, I often feel like the stance I'm taking is smart because the people who I heard it from I agree with.
Well, you're not going to adopt a position that you feel is wrong, that you don't agree with or you think isn't smart. Wink

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  When it comes to actually trying to back myself up in an argument, I find that it's very difficult to defend what I'm saying, because people often come at you from totally different angles you've never heard from. So there's really no way to defend yourself from that sort of thing.
I've experienced this as well. It's easy to listen to the debates on youtube or read them on the forum, but it's an entirely different situation when you're actually talking to someone. As I've talked to more people it seems to get easier, so maybe experience is the key.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I don't know if it's a testament of my own inability to think, or lack of motivation to be so knowledgeable on a subject that I could school someone in a debate. I think it's mostly the later, but it's true that I often leave an argument feeling like I really don't know much about what I'm talking about, when it comes to politics.
Politics is less rational then religion.

Say a politician proposes a law. If the law is passed, it will affect some people positively and some people negatively. If the law is not passed, the same happens. Worse, it is difficult if not impossible to accurately gauge numbers of helped/harmed, especially when talking long term.

To put it bluntly: Politics are fucked up.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I just don't feel like a very smart person in general, that's another thing that reading that poor guy's post made me think of. I definitely don't want to kill myself because of it, but I did do horrible in school and find math to be so agonizingly boring, I can hardly even do basic math problems like dividing, let alone algebra. It sucks, I actually feel so jealous of people who are smart and good at math I want to beat them up, like some mongoloid school yard bully who picks on people because of his insecurities.
Life is school. You are never out of school. Never stop learning. If you want to be better at something, do it. Take classes, find free online resources. Math is hard for a lot of people. And if you can figure out the sale price, like when a item is 20% off, that's algebra.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I mean, I know that one of the worst things you can do is hold your self up to someone else and compare, but it's kind of hard not to. I really do feel uneducated, unintelligent, I often feel like that's one thing I wish I had more of, intelligence.
Your level of education is entirely up to you. You have a staggering amount of information just on the internet. Educate yourself and don't compare yourself to others.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I'm sorry to just go on and on and on about this, but I'm just going to take up as much space as I feel is enough to get my thoughts out. I'm disadvantaged in this world.
Yep. Everybody has some. The question is, how will you overcome them?

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Because artistically I know I have talent, I know that one of my biggest strengths is spacial visual thinking, I am great at anything that involves creativity and artistic talent. I've always excelled at that. The thing is, I don't want to go into an art field. That whole field has low job security, it requires you to work for someone else and do artwork that is commissioned of you, or it requires you to work independently and have no job security at all. It's haunting to me, to think that my biggest strength is worthless.
I also made that decision, back when I was starting my career. I have art talent, but the art industry is iffy at best. So I went into a different career.

So find a career that you can do that is related to art, or just do art as a hobby. Again, you have the internet. Post your stuff online. Do it as a sideline and if you are good and lucky, maybe some day you can make money off of it.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I'm creative in so many aspects, I wouldn't trade my love of art and music and ability for the ability to do many or be a really excellent debater, but man I just wish I had something that put me ahead in life. It's too difficult, and you wanna know the worst part of it all? I have no motivation to do art anymore. I don't even like drawing anymore and I have hardly any motivation to do really anything in life, because I feel every single day, a deep sucking nihilism inside of me, which just tells me that everything's pointless. It's been there for years and years and years, probably since early high school. It sucks. It's just insulting to me that in my mind I can picture myself being happy, but it seems unfeasible to attain it.

That sounds like depression. See a therapist or counselor. I'm talking from experience.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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25-04-2016, 09:48 PM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I'm not trying to take the piss out of that other guy, I was just reading what he said and I felt like I could really related. When I take a stance on an issue, I often feel like the stance I'm taking is smart because the people who I heard it from I agree with. When it comes to actually trying to back myself up in an argument, I find that it's very difficult to defend what I'm saying, because people often come at you from totally different angles you've never heard from. So there's really no way to defend yourself from that sort of thing.

Literally see no problem. If someone presents information that contradicts your position the reasonable thing to do is to allow yourself to accept the new information. If you have an emotional investment in your positions that cause you to want to hold onto them no matter what then you are fundamentally an illogical person. In which case you are no worse than 99.999% of humans.
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26-04-2016, 12:15 AM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  When it comes to actually trying to back myself up in an argument, I find that it's very difficult to defend what I'm saying, because people often come at you from totally different angles you've never heard from. So there's really no way to defend yourself from that sort of thing.

It's just mean that you don't know enough about what you're defending. Also not every criticism of stance x is valid. For example saying that zygote is unborn child is just load of bullshit and attempt to use emotions in hope of swaying people.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I think it's mostly the later, but it's true that I often leave an argument feeling like I really don't know much about what I'm talking about, when it comes to politics.

It's possible that you don't know much about something but admitting that such possibility exists is first step in road to broadening knowledge.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  Hell, I said that America's prisons raise and lower their government income based on how many prisoners they have, so prisons have incentive to incarcerate more people, yet someone tells me that's a load of bullshit!

So? If I recall correctly you offered nothing to back your claims.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  It's just what I've heard, how can that be bullshit?

Fact that you heard something does not mean that it can't be bullshit.

(25-04-2016 06:27 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I've heard it so many times, but I guess that's what happens when you have other people tell you information. There's really no way to be independently knowledgeable, you'd have to have some sort of unattainable psychic esq knowledge so you know where to look and relevant information.

No. You just have to know thing or two about subject that you're talking about, preferably from professional literature not from hearsay. Otherwise you will be repeatedly shown that your knowledge is lacking.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-04-2016, 05:47 AM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
Politics is so fucking stupid. It's just a test of will, to see how much you're willing to invest in finding the "truth". Even if I hear something from a reputable news source, who sites really viable information, it's not like I'm gonna remember the source they got it from, or be such a snob I actually go and bibliography each source I hear my information from. I'm a 1 man show, I figure out about my politics all by myself, it's not a college essay, it's not like I'm studying for a debate. I just know what I know, I know who I trust, if I hear someone present me with new evidence for something, I will change my point of view.

That's something I'm always telling myself, that if you can't change your point of view based on new evidence then you're a mental hypocrite. You actually didn't provide me with any new information, but honestly I just feel like it hurts my sense of pride when I get cut down in a political argument, but someone who says something that sounds like total bullshit, yet I have no way of proving what they say is bullshit or what I say is right. I mean, I have mental faculties that tell me whether or not something sounds plausible. I can be incredulous when I hear something for the first time, that's what it means to be skeptical.

I mean, it's easy to come to a conclusion based on just something you've heard. That's one thing I've realized about politics and I tell myself all the time, is that there's so much I don't know I feel like I'm taking a shot in the dark sometimes when it comes to the political stuff that I'm talking about. That's something I completely acknowledge though, so come to think of it I'm not sure why people feel that I need to be told that redundantly.
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26-04-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
If you know you're ignorant, you are already ahead of a lot of people (Dunning-Kruger types).

It's good that you're trying to improve your skills outside of the areas you find easier (like art). Maybe the problem is your expectations about the amount of time and effort required to master new skills? One thing I notice in my adult students as opposed to my child students (I teach music) is that while kids and adults progress at similar rates, the adults often get more frustrated with their rates of progress and feel that they should be picking up the skill faster.

I do think you might benefit from some counseling, since it sounds as though your anxiety and anhedonia are getting in the way of moving forward.
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26-04-2016, 06:19 AM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
(26-04-2016 06:05 AM)julep Wrote:  If you know you're ignorant, you are already ahead of a lot of people (Dunning-Kruger types).

It's good that you're trying to improve your skills outside of the areas you find easier (like art). Maybe the problem is your expectations about the amount of time and effort required to master new skills? One thing I notice in my adult students as opposed to my child students (I teach music) is that while kids and adults progress at similar rates, the adults often get more frustrated with their rates of progress and feel that they should be picking up the skill faster.

I do think you might benefit from some counseling, since it sounds as though your anxiety and anhedonia are getting in the way of moving forward.
I've been seeing a psychologist a couple times a week for the past year and a half. And yeah I have been telling myself for a while now that I want to try to learn math on my own. I took an IQ test and they told me that I have a learning disability when it comes to math, that really pissed me off because I don't know how they came to that conclusion, I've always found math boring. I think they gave me a bunch of math problems to do and I couldn't really even get that far in any of the problems they gave me. Hello! I haven't done a math problem in years, my last math class was 11th grade.

It's fucking stupid that they'd tell me I have a learning disability in math, they tested my math IQ really low. Fuck them. I think IQ is a really stupid measure of intelligence, just sort of solidifies my view that in order to be "smart" you just have to be better than everyone else at doing the exact same fucking thing. You just have to do it faster and not mess up. What a perfectly business man, capitalist minded mentality. A perfect mentality for our wonderful country, wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't.

I too am a musician, I play guitar and muddle around with my bass, drum set, and piano. I don't really have the technical knowledge of how to play those instruments besides the guitar.
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26-04-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: I have a bit of a problem feeling like a dumbass too
(26-04-2016 06:19 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  I took an IQ test and they told me that I have a learning disability when it comes to math, that really pissed me off because I don't know how they came to that conclusion, I've always found math boring. I think they gave me a bunch of math problems to do and I couldn't really even get that far in any of the problems they gave me. Hello! I haven't done a math problem in years, my last math class was 11th grade.
Why does that make you angry? I don't understand. Learning disabilities are well understood (although not perfectly) and there are work-arounds and techniques that can help cope with them.

(26-04-2016 06:19 AM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  It's fucking stupid that they'd tell me I have a learning disability in math, they tested my math IQ really low. Fuck them. I think IQ is a really stupid measure of intelligence, just sort of solidifies my view that in order to be "smart" you just have to be better than everyone else at doing the exact same fucking thing. You just have to do it faster and not mess up. What a perfectly business man, capitalist minded mentality. A perfect mentality for our wonderful country, wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't.

You are blending the concepts of intelligence and competence. IQ tests are not perfect, but they have improved in the last few decades. If you are aware of their limitations and flaws, the tests can be useful.

What you describe is not exactly a capitalist mentality.

If you perform your job tasks with greater competence, speed and accuracy than your co-workers, then this will allow you better opportunities, better pay, etc. That applies to capitalism, but it applies to many other areas as well.

It also applies to you.

You haven't described any problems that would prevent you from being successful.

You have described psychological issues and problems with math.
These are indeed challenges and they should not be minimized.
However they are challenges that can be overcome.

You mentioned seeing a psychologist. Ask them what resources are available in your area. There are often learning support services, counseling services and career counselors. (I'm assuming you are in the US, if not, this may not apply).

Do something today to advance your goals, even if it is small.
Write a plan, draw something, call someone to ask about resources.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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