I have a debate idea
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31-08-2014, 06:17 AM
RE: I have a debate idea
(31-08-2014 04:35 AM)Ace Wrote:  this won't happen outside of scripted tv

This kind of thing happens in debate clubs/classes and law schools all the time.

It is very educational when there is substance to both sides.

This, however, is not one of those cases.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-08-2014, 06:21 AM
RE: I have a debate idea
(31-08-2014 06:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-08-2014 04:29 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Very good point, the anti-religion argument is reason based on facts. Let me edit the rational worldview side of the circular argument then:

Rational position
**************

Q: why is this meaningful to you?
A: because it's true that it's facts-based and reasonable
Q: how do you know it's true that it's facts-based and reasonable?
A: because I can see it's meaningful

How does that one sound?

Phil

Like a poor parody. Drinking Beverage

Exactly how it sounds to me too!

Phil
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01-09-2014, 10:20 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 10:32 PM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: I have a debate idea
(31-08-2014 06:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-08-2014 04:35 AM)Ace Wrote:  this won't happen outside of scripted tv

This kind of thing happens in debate clubs/classes and law schools all the time.

It is very educational when there is substance to both sides.

This, however, is not one of those cases.

You're exactly right. Something richard dawkins said really resonated with me. It was something alone the lines of, "the problem with debating religion is that it's not a debate". There's no substance/evidence, it's irrational.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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01-09-2014, 10:28 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 10:34 PM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: I have a debate idea
I'm just thinking we've seen these debates go in circles time and time again. It would be refreshing to hear a christian fully understand and recite our rational accurately, and I'm sure they would feel more respected if we provided their (i won't say rational) thinking accurately.

Though it doesn't make much sense to me, I think I can defend the christian point of view. Christians should be able to recite our point of view as well.

It'd be an interesting twist for sure.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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02-09-2014, 02:39 AM
RE: I have a debate idea
No theist would legitimately attempt to argue the side of the atheist, instead use the debate to dishonesty represent the case of an atheist.
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02-09-2014, 05:57 AM
RE: I have a debate idea
(31-08-2014 04:29 AM)phil.a Wrote:  
(31-08-2014 04:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You're forgetting evidence.

I wouldn't argue against religion through 'rationality', because it's all too easy to bend it to your own will; especially in from of a gullible lay audience. Stick to evidence, the burden of proof, inference, and logical deduction.

Very good point, the anti-religion argument is reason based on facts. Let me edit the rational worldview side of the circular argument then:

Rational position
**************

Q: why is this meaningful to you?
A: because it's true that it's facts-based and reasonable
Q: how do you know it's true that it's facts-based and reasonable?
A: because I can see it's meaningful

How does that one sound?

Phil

I see what you're saying but at the end of the day reality counts. I think your sensitivity to circular reasoning is a bit too sharp. Finding examples external and independent to that which is claimed that are positive is a demonstration that something is the truth.

If we don't look at it through a narrower lens then everything can be said to be circular in nature. The rational perspective is the better perspective.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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02-09-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: I have a debate idea
(02-09-2014 05:57 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  I see what you're saying but at the end of the day reality counts. I think your sensitivity to circular reasoning is a bit too sharp. Finding examples external and independent to that which is claimed that are positive is a demonstration that something is the truth.

I'm not sure there is much disagreement over fact per se, the disagreements arise more over interpretation of fact. Eg i think young earth creationists and rational thinkers both agree there are fossils in the world, they both have different explanations for how they got there though.

Quote:If we don't look at it through a narrower lens then everything can be said to be circular in nature. The rational perspective is the better perspective.

Perhaps so, but circularity is one of the key rational criticisms of the religious worldview, so our position lacks consistency if we allow it in our own behaviour.

Is there perhaps a third option to simply taking sides and fighting with anyone who disagrees with us? One that does not involve any compromise of our rational values?

Phil
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03-09-2014, 11:26 AM
RE: I have a debate idea
(02-09-2014 11:08 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Perhaps so, but circularity is one of the key rational criticisms of the religious worldview, so our position lacks consistency if we allow it in our own behaviour.

No, I disagree. You are making an equivocation fallacy.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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06-09-2014, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2014 09:11 PM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: I have a debate idea
*Off topic posts that are not relevant to the original post should be against the rules. If enough people report a person for this, that person should be kicked from the thread. By all means I'm happy to hash everything out, but lets not fragment threads. Start a new one! I like to refer back to the threads I participate in and it makes it a lot more difficult when it's cluttered with bullshit (diddo).

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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06-09-2014, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2014 09:11 PM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: I have a debate idea
(02-09-2014 11:08 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Perhaps so, but circularity is one of the key rational criticisms of the religious worldview, so our position lacks consistency if we allow it in our own behaviour.

Idk that I agree with this either. Just because I'm saying what I think a christian would say, does not mean I believe it, nor does it dilute my thinking/rational decision making.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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