I have a fear of Hell
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28-12-2012, 07:02 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
(28-12-2012 06:49 AM)morondog Wrote:  All part of the experience my dear Tongue
As long as it is ideasonscribe and not egor, I guess it won't be too bad...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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28-12-2012, 07:03 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
(28-12-2012 07:02 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(28-12-2012 06:49 AM)morondog Wrote:  All part of the experience my dear Tongue
As long as it is ideasonscribe and not egor, I guess it won't be too bad...
Egor will be part of the universal consciousness by then... watching you... all. the. time. Big Grin
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28-12-2012, 07:04 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
(28-12-2012 07:03 AM)morondog Wrote:  Egor will be part of the universal consciousness by then... watching you... all. the. time. Big Grin
Still preferable to me having to watch him. I never was into voyeurism anyway Drinking Beverage

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28-12-2012, 07:05 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
I had a fear of hell too, but then I realized I'm going to he'll no matter what I believe in cuz I'm a terrible person.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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28-12-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
(28-12-2012 04:50 AM)JackDaniels Wrote:  Hey,

I have been an atheist for about a year and a half. I wasn't
heavily indoctrinated or raised religious but I did believe in god
for the first 16 years of my life. I always believed in a hell but
I thought that only murders and people like that went there.
It wasn't until I went through this like 6 month religious phase
that I learned all the rules and that a lot more things can get
you sent to hell then I thought. During this time my anxiety and
ocd got really bad. Now I am an atheist but I still suffer from
a fear in hell.

I get negative thoughts about satan and hell and I don't believe
in god but I worry "what if I'm wrong?". It's really frustrating because
I feel like a hypocrite that I don't believe in god but I keep getting
worried and anxiety about what if I'm wrong.

I was just wondering if any of you feel the same thing I do or
any tips on how to get over it.

Thank you.


Sounds like you are in hell already?

Get the heck outta there! People make their own hell. You got to figure out exactly what thoughts/actions precede every time you get a "fear of hell" attack. Then you can recognize it before it happens and get rid of it.

Hell is what you do to yourself. Lots of people are living in self inflicted hell.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-12-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
Why the fuck you worried about hell? It's heaven that's really fucking creepy. Angel

Anyway... there ain't no hell. And the Bible tells you so, if you listen to it and not some fuckwad with an agenda. The key is Holy Spirit. With Spirit, evil cannot abide; when one is baptized in Spirit, one cannot even mention evil shit. So, how do they get away with it? There's a loophole - remember, this shit was written by Jews Big Grin - where "hell" is only relevant to the unrepentant. Read, non-Christian. In the Bible, it is the apostles and Jesus speaking of hell to the unconverted. And yet!

If you're not Christian, there is no hell. So! Put the two together, and hell does not exist. You're welcome. That'll be $29.95...999599... Make all checks payable to The Thinking Atheist. Now go, my son, and sin no more. Angel

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28-12-2012, 07:54 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
(28-12-2012 04:50 AM)JackDaniels Wrote:  Hey,

I have been an atheist for about a year and a half. I wasn't
heavily indoctrinated or raised religious but I did believe in god
for the first 16 years of my life. I always believed in a hell but
I thought that only murders and people like that went there.
It wasn't until I went through this like 6 month religious phase
that I learned all the rules and that a lot more things can get
you sent to hell then I thought. During this time my anxiety and
ocd got really bad. Now I am an atheist but I still suffer from
a fear in hell.

I get negative thoughts about satan and hell and I don't believe
in god but I worry "what if I'm wrong?". It's really frustrating because
I feel like a hypocrite that I don't believe in god but I keep getting
worried and anxiety about what if I'm wrong.

I was just wondering if any of you feel the same thing I do or
any tips on how to get over it.

Thank you.
Hello Jack.

A few years ago I wrote an article for a Muslim who was leaving Islam, and who shared very similar fears as you are experiencing. I would like to also share that article with you below. I hope it helps you in some small way.


The Dilemma Of Pascal's Wager



Isn't it marvelous to be a human being? Have you ever thought that when you look upon another person that it is like looking into a mirror? I think that way many times, and the reason I think that way is because I believe that at the very core of our humanity, all people are the same.


I like to believe that almost all people on earth are born with the same mentality. As we begin to grow, we learn what is right and what is wrong in the way that we interact with each other. We learn the basics of what is right and wrong, and then from there it depends on which culture we belong to in which we learn such things as religious beliefs.


We all learn that it is wrong to harm those whom we care about, or to harm anyone in our social structure. The one thing that I believe that all cultures on the earth believe in is the Golden Rule; "do not do to anyone what you would not want to have done to yourself." The Golden Rule, also known as "Ethic of reciprocity," is something that is practiced all over the world by almost all of the world's cultures. Listed below are the many different variations of the Golden Rule put into practice by all the major religions and cultures on the earth.


1. Buddhism: "Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.”

2. Baha'i Faith: "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not."

3. Christianity: "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself."

4. Confucianism: "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself."

5. Hinduism: "One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self."

6. Islam: "Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you."

7. Jainism: "Just as pain is not agreeable to you, it is so with others. Knowing this principle of equality treat each other with respect and compassion."

8. Judaism: "You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself."

9. Taoism: "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss."


By now, you are probably wondering what my point actually is. Well, the point I am trying to make is that, at the core, almost everyone in the world knows and understands the value of the golden rule. Almost all religions and cultures place the Golden Rule at the core of their teachings and their laws. The Golden Rule is so important in our cultures because it is an innate truth among human beings. It is what we all have in common, and it is what our religious beliefs all teach.


The Golden Rule implies more than just the words we read on our screen. For example, by honoring the Golden Rule you would not steal, kill, lie, commit adultery, nor do anything that would harm another person in any way. In effect, by honoring the Golden Rule, you would not sin the greatest sins against humanity.


You have said that the thing that is making you afraid of leaving Islam is the possibility that if Islam is correct, then you will suffer for all of eternity. The Christians who thought about apostatizing also faced the same question known as Pascal's Wager.


But let's suppose for a moment that there is some small chance that Islam is correct, and that despite the lack of evidence to support the existence of God, the God actually exists. The problem is a matter of what is "probable." As human beings, we tend to accept the reality of things based upon factual evidence. Some human beings accept their "beliefs" as reality, when in fact there is no evidence to support their beliefs as actually being truthful.


What this means is that the existence of God is not probable for the simple reason that insufficient evidence has been presented to prove God's existence. This is not your fault, nor the fault of anyone else. If this God actually existed, then it is his fault that no evidence has been presented. Therefore, since there is no evidence to support the existence of God, then why should you waste the only life you have on worshiping something that has never been proven to exist?


Why not go with what you know for certain? You know for a certainty that one day you will die. This is the one common thing among all humanity that we are certain of. We all will die one day. Therefore, why should you spend your life on things that you are not certain about such as worshiping a God? Why should you deny yourself the good things in this life just because you are afraid of something that has never been proven to exist?


The evidence demonstrates that you have one life to live. And if you live your life according to the Golden Rule, and then when you die you discover that Islam was actually the truth, do you not think that you could stand before God and say, "I lived my life according to what was true, certain, and just. It is not my fault that you did not provide reasonable evidence that you existed. You made me this way, therefore will you now blame me for the way I was made by you?"


If God is a reasonable God, then what kind of argument could he give to you? If you spent your life loving the whole human race under the banner of the Golden Rule, and it is God's fault that he failed to convince you that he existed, then don't you think that if such a God was actually reasonable and "Merciful" that he would forgive you? If such a God was reasonable and merciful, then it would be a contradiction of him to not forgive you because it is his fault, and not yours.


You have one life to live as far as we know for sure. Do not gamble it on uncertainty such as the existence of God. Instead, Live it to the fullest by being kind to others, and harming no one. Do not worry about God, for if such a god exists he will judge you according to your deeds, and not according to your beliefs.


After all, if God exists, then it is God's fault that you do not believe. You will be blameless. Ali Sina made a great analogy by asking that we put ourselves in God's shoes. He said, "If you were the God of your backyard, would you destroy the ants for not worshiping you?" Do you now see how silly that is? To God, we are like the ants, so do you think he will destroy us for not worshiping him? Think about that.


Therefore, not believing is more advantageous because you only know for certain that you have one life to live, so why not take advantage of that by living a good life with all of humanity in your heart instead of gambling it on uncertainty? Wouldn't you rather go with what is certain rather than make a gamble? If you knew for certain that you could get a million dollars, isn't that so much better than buying a lottery ticket?


You have one chance to love the whole world and leave behind a legacy of an exemplary human being. It is my hope you will live your life well, with good cheer for all, and enduring happiness for yourself.


Peace.

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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28-12-2012, 10:16 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
(28-12-2012 04:50 AM)JackDaniels Wrote:  Hey,

I have been an atheist for about a year and a half. I wasn't
heavily indoctrinated or raised religious but I did believe in god
for the first 16 years of my life. I always believed in a hell but
I thought that only murders and people like that went there.
It wasn't until I went through this like 6 month religious phase
that I learned all the rules and that a lot more things can get
you sent to hell then I thought. During this time my anxiety and
ocd got really bad. Now I am an atheist but I still suffer from
a fear in hell.

I get negative thoughts about satan and hell and I don't believe
in god but I worry "what if I'm wrong?". It's really frustrating because
I feel like a hypocrite that I don't believe in god but I keep getting
worried and anxiety about what if I'm wrong.

I was just wondering if any of you feel the same thing I do or
any tips on how to get over it.

Thank you.
It may just be a matter of time before that will pass. I think some part of you may still not have let go of religion 100%. I went through that myself for many years before I finally was completely comfortable and had no remaining fear of hell. It's almost like we need time for an equal amount of opposite brain washing to get rid of the indoctrination we had been subjected to.

The OCD, however, may be a complicating factor that may make it harder for you to completely let go of it. I like what Dom had to say about identifying your thoughts just before the fear sets in and learning to do away with them before they take hold. That sounds like great advice.

Here are 2 additional thoughts that I hope may help:
1) If you had never been indoctrinated with religion, you would have no fear of hell today. That should tell you that your fear comes entirely from within yourself as a result of the indoctrination and not from a real hell.

2) What kind of god could create hell or deliberately send people there (or simply allow them to go) to suffer unimaginable torture for the rest of time without an end? Would you really want the alternative which would be to spend all that time next to such an evil being in "heaven"? Would that really be eternal bliss? I think it would be more like eternal fear and slavery. Who's to say hell would really be worse than heaven? That line of thought is enough for me to dismiss the whole idea that any variation of a good god creating hell can possibly be true. That then rules out all the corresponding religions that teach there is a hell. And, when I take a look at what's left - other religions or related philosophies - there simply is no evidence to believe that any of it is more than imaginations running wild.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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28-12-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
Another article I wrote deals with the fear of hell. Again, I hope it helps you in some small way.

YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

Yes it’s true. Every last one of us is going to hell, and it doesn’t matter if you are a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, or if you belong to any faith at all.

Hell will be our final resting place.

So what the hell is “Hell” anyways? According to both Christian and Muslim resources, Hell can be described as a place of eternal damnation where sinners are tortured in an eternal fire for all of eternity.

The Christians arrive at their concept of Hell according to their literal interpretation of the Book of Revelation in the Holy Bible. They arrive at this conclusion based upon a few specific scriptures which seem to identify a place of eternal torture as Hell.

However, most Christians are actually very uneducated in regards to ancient scriptures and ancient forms of writing. The serious student of ancient scripture will recognize the Book of Revelation as a Gnostic writing, with all the typical connotations of that genre. During the time of Christ, and for centuries afterwards, the Gnostic Christians produced hundreds of writings very similar in writing style to the Book of Revelation.

The religion of the Gnostics was known as gnosis which means “knowledge.” Their writing style was exceptionally appealing to the mind, as they used a stunning method of graphical expression with words. Ripe with allegorical and figurative descriptions, the Gnostics carved out a path for themselves in the ancient religious monochrome of ancient Israel and the Roman-Greco Empire of the 1st to the 4th centuries A.D.

For those of you interested in learning and understand more regarding the Gnostics and their writings, you may wish to view their works within the ancient codices known as The Nag Hammadi Library, which can be viewed online Here

Yet, was it really the fault of the Gnostics whereas modern Christian literalists managed to interpret Hell as a place of eternal damnation in a fiery grave? Also, is it the fault of the ancient Christian literalists from whom Muhammad borrowed the concept of a fiery eternal damnation known as Hell in which he has now terrorized hundreds of millions of Muslims for 1400 years with his Quran?

Well, let’s take a look at the origins of Hell and find out for ourselves.

According to the King James Version of the Holy Bible, the earliest reference to Hell is given in Deuteronomy 32.22. The word which was translated from the Hebrew to the Greek, and then onto the English was sheh-ole, and it carries the meaning as such: “world of the dead; a subterranean retreat, including its accessories and inmates:--grave, pit.”

In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term sheol is translated as hell 31 times. However Sheol was also translated as "grave" 31 times. Sheol is also translated as "pit" three times. The KJV translates Hades as Hell 10 times, and as grave once. Hades is traditionally the Greek word used to mean sheol.

Therefore, according to the oldest reference to Hell, all it means is that it is the grave or a pit for the dead. The description of Hell here is that it is but a prison for those whom have passed away. It is never described as a place of eternal damnation where sinners are subjected to torture forever.

Even in the Gospels, Jesus is not recorded as ever saying that Hell was a fiery place of eternal torture and damnation. However, he does make indeed make statements in relation to hell and fire in Mat 5.22, Mat 18.9, and Mark 9.43 etc. But what did he mean by those statements? Let’s investigate …

In the Gospels the word Hell comes from the word of Ghenna, pronounced gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin; valley of the son of Hinnom; ge-henna, or Ge-Hinnom, a valley of Jerusalem, used figuratively as a name for the place or state of everlasting punishment.

You’ll be interested to learn that we already know where this place is, and it is not an ethereal place where Satan dwells, but actually the Jerusalem city dump. The actual place referred to is Hinnom, a deep, narrow ravine separating Mount Zion from the so-called "Hill of Evil Counsel" to the southwest of Jerusalem .

Hinnom is first mentioned in Joshua 15:8: “And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward.”

It was formerly the place where the idolatrous Jews burned their children alive as a sacrifice to Moloch and Baal. A particular part of the valley was called Tophet, the "fire-stove" or furnace, where the children were burned. After the Exile, in order to show their abhorrence of the locality, the Jews made this valley the receptacle of the refuse of the city. As with refuse, in those times it was burned to keep down vermin, the obvious offensive odors, to maximize space, and a fire was kept constantly burning there.

Excavations carried out at this site from 1975 to 1980 by an archaeological mission turned up remains of nine burial caves around the ravine. In earlier excavations of the actual dump, it was found that the fire was still smoldering after centuries. More info about this Hell can be found Here.

So now that we have nailed down the history of the Christian concept of Hell, how far would it be to make a jump to the Muslim concept, which is almost identical? Actually, we don’t need to go too far at all.

It is without doubt that Muhammad borrowed much from the Torah and Gospels when he constructed his Quran. Although most Muslims like to deny it, the fact of the matter is there is evidence in existence that Muhammad was influenced by both Jews and Christians during his time. One such Christian is spoken about in the Hadith. His name was Waraqa bin Naufal. There are two very interesting Hadiths regarding this man:

Narrated 'Aisha: Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605: Sahih Al-Bukhari

“The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic …”


As you can see above, Waraqa bin Naufal used to read the Gospel in Arabic. How did he get a gospel in Arabic? That is answered in another Hadith:

Narrated 'Aisha: Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3: Sahih Al-Bukhari

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write.


So here we have Waraqa bin Naufal with a Gospel written in Hebrew, and who used to write from this Gospel, and then we suddenly have him reading from a gospel written in Arabic? Was there an Arabic gospel floating around in the time and place of Muhammad back in those days? Apparently, there was.

One such possible Gospel was known as The Arabic Infancy Gospel. Upon reading this gospel we find two outstanding similarities to certain verses within the Quran. Both the Arabic Infancy Gospel and the Quran have Jesus speaking as a baby, and also have Jesus making birds of clay, and then instructing them to fly. Modern scholars agree that the dating of this gospel was sometime in the mid to late 6th century, right around the time of Muhammad.

According to the analysis of textual criticism, the text was originally written in Syriac, a dialect of Aramaic which itself was based upon the Hebrew alphabet. The text became translated into Arabic, probably around the time that Christianity began to spread into the Arabian Peninsula. The narrative of the Arabic Infancy Gospel, particularly the second part concerning the miracles in Egypt , can also be found in the Quran. According to some critical scholarship, its presence in the Quran may be due to the influence the Gospel had amongst the Arabs.

More information on this gospel can be found Here.

So now we have a link between specific verses in the Quran and specific verses from a gospel which was accessible to Muhammad during his time. This tells us clearly that Muhammad was indeed influenced by Christian theology in Arabia during his time, especially when the Hadith clearly shows an Arabic gospel within his very grasp.

My English version of the Quran mentions hell almost 100 times. Due to its graphical description of Hell, the Quran repeatedly characterizes Hell as a fiery place of eternal torture and damnation. This Quranic description of Hell is almost identical to the orally propagated beliefs of the early century Christians whose descendants have continued this tradition into the modern age, along with Islam.

Yet, this description of Hell as a place of eternal torture just doesn’t jibe with the actual history of what Hell really is. Because of this, we find billions of Christians and Muslims being subdued and controlled by a man-made myth for almost 2000 years.

The real Hell is not some fiery place of eternal torture and damnation. We could even say that the real Hell is not even the grave. But damn few of us can say that when we look at all the hatred, wars, killing, and other tragedies befalling the human race today that Hell does not exist, for it certainly does exist.

Hell exists, and it has been running rampant upon the face of the earth for far too long. You can see it in the eyes of the suicide bomber, airplane hijackers, and through the actions of those who behead the innocent in the name of Allah.

It’s time for the human race to tell Hell … to go to Hell.

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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28-12-2012, 10:31 AM
RE: I have a fear of Hell
The concept of hell was introduced to you at an impressionable age just as it was to me. The idea of burning for eternity is a very traumatic message to communicate to kids. The Church knows this and the concept has worked very well for hundreds of years, keeping people in line. The fact that it haunts you proves it. Just think of it in terms of psychology and the reason why the idea is still around: to keep people, like yourself, and others, within the herd. The idea of torment is very effective.
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