I have a fear of Hell

[Rahn127]

My way of dealing with an imaginary place (like hell) is to become connected to it and when you are connected to something, you have power over it. If I should suddenly awaken one day in hell, then that means I'm no longer bound by the rules on Earth. Which means I can do anything. I can leave hell. I can rule it. I can release anyone bound in hell. I can destroy anything with a whisper of my breath. I can swim in the lava filled fires of hell and enjoy the warmth.

Basically hell is something that binds your mind in order to convince you to stay in that place.

"Stay - be a good dog - be a good servant. Do as I say - Obey me"
This is what religion teaches and wants you to learn.

I say "Be free. Go where ever your will commands. Don't let anyone or anything keep you from what makes you happy"

[Vera]

(28-12-2012 10:58 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  My way of dealing with an imaginary place (like hell) is to become connected to it and when you are connected to something, you have power over it. If I should suddenly awaken one day in hell, then that means I'm no longer bound by the rules on Earth. Which means I can do anything. I can leave hell. I can rule it. I can release anyone bound in hell. I can destroy anything with a whisper of my breath. I can swim in the lava filled fires of hell and enjoy the warmth.

Basically hell is something that binds your mind in order to convince you to stay in that place.

"Stay - be a good dog - be a good servant. Do as I say - Obey me"
This is what religion teaches and wants you to learn.

I say "Be free. Go where ever your will commands. Don't let anyone or anything keep you from what makes you happy"

Man, what are you on? I want me some of it, too

(Sounds like you describing me when I'm having a not particularly pleasant dream.)

[One Above All]

From what I hear, fear of hell is quite common among recent deconverts. You basically can do two things: ignore it and hope it goes away (which it should, given enough time), or try to find a way to get over it. The former should work in almost every situation, and the latter is something you have to figure out for yourself.

[Bucky Ball]

(28-12-2012 10:18 AM)Free Wrote:  

Another article I wrote deals with the fear of hell. Again, I hope it helps you in some small way.

YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

Yes it’s true. Every last one of us is going to hell, and it doesn’t matter if you are a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, or if you belong to any faith at all.

Hell will be our final resting place.

So what the hell is “Hell” anyways? According to both Christian and Muslim resources, Hell can be described as a place of eternal damnation where sinners are tortured in an eternal fire for all of eternity.

The Christians arrive at their concept of Hell according to their literal interpretation of the Book of Revelation in the Holy Bible. They arrive at this conclusion based upon a few specific scriptures which seem to identify a place of eternal torture as Hell.

However, most Christians are actually very uneducated in regards to ancient scriptures and ancient forms of writing. The serious student of ancient scripture will recognize the Book of Revelation as a Gnostic writing, with all the typical connotations of that genre. During the time of Christ, and for centuries afterwards, the Gnostic Christians produced hundreds of writings very similar in writing style to the Book of Revelation.

The religion of the Gnostics was known as gnosis which means “knowledge.” Their writing style was exceptionally appealing to the mind, as they used a stunning method of graphical expression with words. Ripe with allegorical and figurative descriptions, the Gnostics carved out a path for themselves in the ancient religious monochrome of ancient Israel and the Roman-Greco Empire of the 1st to the 4th centuries A.D.

For those of you interested in learning and understand more regarding the Gnostics and their writings, you may wish to view their works within the ancient codices known as The Nag Hammadi Library, which can be viewed online Here

Yet, was it really the fault of the Gnostics whereas modern Christian literalists managed to interpret Hell as a place of eternal damnation in a fiery grave? Also, is it the fault of the ancient Christian literalists from whom Muhammad borrowed the concept of a fiery eternal damnation known as Hell in which he has now terrorized hundreds of millions of Muslims for 1400 years with his Quran?

Well, let’s take a look at the origins of Hell and find out for ourselves.

According to the King James Version of the Holy Bible, the earliest reference to Hell is given in Deuteronomy 32.22. The word which was translated from the Hebrew to the Greek, and then onto the English was sheh-ole, and it carries the meaning as such: “world of the dead; a subterranean retreat, including its accessories and inmates:--grave, pit.”

In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term sheol is translated as hell 31 times. However Sheol was also translated as "grave" 31 times. Sheol is also translated as "pit" three times. The KJV translates Hades as Hell 10 times, and as grave once. Hades is traditionally the Greek word used to mean sheol.

Therefore, according to the oldest reference to Hell, all it means is that it is the grave or a pit for the dead. The description of Hell here is that it is but a prison for those whom have passed away. It is never described as a place of eternal damnation where sinners are subjected to torture forever.

Even in the Gospels, Jesus is not recorded as ever saying that Hell was a fiery place of eternal torture and damnation. However, he does make indeed make statements in relation to hell and fire in Mat 5.22, Mat 18.9, and Mark 9.43 etc. But what did he mean by those statements? Let’s investigate …

In the Gospels the word Hell comes from the word of Ghenna, pronounced gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin; valley of the son of Hinnom; ge-henna, or Ge-Hinnom, a valley of Jerusalem, used figuratively as a name for the place or state of everlasting punishment.

You’ll be interested to learn that we already know where this place is, and it is not an ethereal place where Satan dwells, but actually the Jerusalem city dump. The actual place referred to is Hinnom, a deep, narrow ravine separating Mount Zion from the so-called "Hill of Evil Counsel" to the southwest of Jerusalem .

Hinnom is first mentioned in Joshua 15:8: “And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward.”

It was formerly the place where the idolatrous Jews burned their children alive as a sacrifice to Moloch and Baal. A particular part of the valley was called Tophet, the "fire-stove" or furnace, where the children were burned. After the Exile, in order to show their abhorrence of the locality, the Jews made this valley the receptacle of the refuse of the city. As with refuse, in those times it was burned to keep down vermin, the obvious offensive odors, to maximize space, and a fire was kept constantly burning there.

Excavations carried out at this site from 1975 to 1980 by an archaeological mission turned up remains of nine burial caves around the ravine. In earlier excavations of the actual dump, it was found that the fire was still smoldering after centuries. More info about this Hell can be found Here.

So now that we have nailed down the history of the Christian concept of Hell, how far would it be to make a jump to the Muslim concept, which is almost identical? Actually, we don’t need to go too far at all.

It is without doubt that Muhammad borrowed much from the Torah and Gospels when he constructed his Quran. Although most Muslims like to deny it, the fact of the matter is there is evidence in existence that Muhammad was influenced by both Jews and Christians during his time. One such Christian is spoken about in the Hadith. His name was Waraqa bin Naufal. There are two very interesting Hadiths regarding this man:

Narrated 'Aisha: Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605: Sahih Al-Bukhari

“The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic …”


As you can see above, Waraqa bin Naufal used to read the Gospel in Arabic. How did he get a gospel in Arabic? That is answered in another Hadith:

Narrated 'Aisha: Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3: Sahih Al-Bukhari

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write.


So here we have Waraqa bin Naufal with a Gospel written in Hebrew, and who used to write from this Gospel, and then we suddenly have him reading from a gospel written in Arabic? Was there an Arabic gospel floating around in the time and place of Muhammad back in those days? Apparently, there was.

One such possible Gospel was known as The Arabic Infancy Gospel. Upon reading this gospel we find two outstanding similarities to certain verses within the Quran. Both the Arabic Infancy Gospel and the Quran have Jesus speaking as a baby, and also have Jesus making birds of clay, and then instructing them to fly. Modern scholars agree that the dating of this gospel was sometime in the mid to late 6th century, right around the time of Muhammad.

According to the analysis of textual criticism, the text was originally written in Syriac, a dialect of Aramaic which itself was based upon the Hebrew alphabet. The text became translated into Arabic, probably around the time that Christianity began to spread into the Arabian Peninsula. The narrative of the Arabic Infancy Gospel, particularly the second part concerning the miracles in Egypt , can also be found in the Quran. According to some critical scholarship, its presence in the Quran may be due to the influence the Gospel had amongst the Arabs.

More information on this gospel can be found Here.

So now we have a link between specific verses in the Quran and specific verses from a gospel which was accessible to Muhammad during his time. This tells us clearly that Muhammad was indeed influenced by Christian theology in Arabia during his time, especially when the Hadith clearly shows an Arabic gospel within his very grasp.

My English version of the Quran mentions hell almost 100 times. Due to its graphical description of Hell, the Quran repeatedly characterizes Hell as a fiery place of eternal torture and damnation. This Quranic description of Hell is almost identical to the orally propagated beliefs of the early century Christians whose descendants have continued this tradition into the modern age, along with Islam.

Yet, this description of Hell as a place of eternal torture just doesn’t jibe with the actual history of what Hell really is. Because of this, we find billions of Christians and Muslims being subdued and controlled by a man-made myth for almost 2000 years.

The real Hell is not some fiery place of eternal torture and damnation. We could even say that the real Hell is not even the grave. But damn few of us can say that when we look at all the hatred, wars, killing, and other tragedies befalling the human race today that Hell does not exist, for it certainly does exist.

Hell exists, and it has been running rampant upon the face of the earth for far too long. You can see it in the eyes of the suicide bomber, airplane hijackers, and through the actions of those who behead the innocent in the name of Allah.

It’s time for the human race to tell Hell … to go to Hell.

Thanks for all that. Just to summarize. Gehenna was the Jerusalem trash dump, where a continuous fire burned, even at the time of Jebus. It's basically where we have the "firey hell" idea. It stunk to high heaven, as the many thousands of animal carcasses were burned there, along with the trash. It was the most awful place they could imagine, or had experienced. The Hebrew concept of Sheol, (the underworld), and the Greek Hades, were not places of torture. They were somewhat similar, but dead Jews were not thought to be tortured, (neither were dead Greeks), no matter whether they were good or bad. Dead was dead, except that in some sense the "exalted" ones, (a very few prophetic hero figures .. ie Elijah, and a few others), were granted "immortal" status, (much as we think of Babe Ruth having "immortal" *baseball* status). It is in that light, the "resurrection", (of Jebus) must be understood, according to Dr. Bernard Brandon Scott, a leading NT scholar. Fundamentalism's scare tactic of punishment is misguided, and essentially ignorant of it's own roots.

[Matthew Laramore]

(28-12-2012 04:50 AM)JackDaniels Wrote:  Hey,

I have been an atheist for about a year and a half. I wasn't
heavily indoctrinated or raised religious but I did believe in god
for the first 16 years of my life. I always believed in a hell but
I thought that only murders and people like that went there.
It wasn't until I went through this like 6 month religious phase
that I learned all the rules and that a lot more things can get
you sent to hell then I thought. During this time my anxiety and
ocd got really bad. Now I am an atheist but I still suffer from
a fear in hell.

I get negative thoughts about satan and hell and I don't believe
in god but I worry "what if I'm wrong?". It's really frustrating because
I feel like a hypocrite that I don't believe in god but I keep getting
worried and anxiety about what if I'm wrong.

I was just wondering if any of you feel the same thing I do or
any tips on how to get over it.

Thank you.

You'll have to do more studying, research and personal pondering before you understand a few things about what makes the threat of hell a fear factor and nothing more...

1: When you exist in a world that is over 70% water, the element of life, creating a world that is 70% fire, which can be compared to the sun which is a big ball of fire, creativity is easily manipulated.

2: Fire also happens to be an earth element, therefore easily imagined.

3: If you look around and note what people use fire for, camp fires, lighting cigarettes, lighting candles, arson, magic tricks, ect...the thought of hell for me at least is laughable.

4: Because of the constant advertised deadline of your departure to hell, which is after death, you're given an entire lifetime of both good and bad deeds whilst at the same time not giving a fuck about hell because by the time you die, the damage is done. This undermines the entire purpose of hell from the start, after all people can tell you somehow the blueprints of hell but never its counterpart, heaven which is where they strive to go instead...a place of no intellect or design or adherence to the senses.

5: The planet Venus is littered with volcanoes, earth has very few. Lets assume hell was another planet, Venus matches every description ever given of hell, heaven does not.

Those are just a few trivial facts to keep in mind. Truthfully I think you're more afraid of dying.

[Rahn127]

(28-12-2012 11:00 AM)Vera Wrote:  

(28-12-2012 10:58 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  My way of dealing with an imaginary place (like hell) is to become connected to it and when you are connected to something, you have power over it. If I should suddenly awaken one day in hell, then that means I'm no longer bound by the rules on Earth. Which means I can do anything. I can leave hell. I can rule it. I can release anyone bound in hell. I can destroy anything with a whisper of my breath. I can swim in the lava filled fires of hell and enjoy the warmth.

Basically hell is something that binds your mind in order to convince you to stay in that place.

"Stay - be a good dog - be a good servant. Do as I say - Obey me"
This is what religion teaches and wants you to learn.

I say "Be free. Go where ever your will commands. Don't let anyone or anything keep you from what makes you happy"

Man, what are you on? I want me some of it, too

(Sounds like you describing me when I'm having a not particularly pleasant dream.)

It's called having confidence and a huge ego.
I was told as child that I could do anything my heart desires.
I took that literally

[cheapthrillseaker]

Everyone is going to hell. There are several religions that believe in it, and several derivatives of the same religion which curse others of the similar branch. If you don't buy into one, you're hellbound. Equal opportunity all around!

Also, hell is colder than heaven, if you calculate with what the bible says.

[url] http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm[/url]

[Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver]

(28-12-2012 05:04 AM)Vera Wrote:  Hey!

Can't say we have a particularly similar experience, but here goes. For me, one of the things that contributed a lot to my deconversion, was the idea of hell. I never really believed in it, not even when I was religious. The idea of a benevolent, all-loving (or even indifferent) god and eternal torture was just something my brain couldn't wrap itself around. If the idea of condemning anyone to eternal suffering, beyond anything we can imagine, is inconceivable to a mere, flawed (and, according to this all-loving god, inherently evil) human being, how can it be acceptable to a perfect being?

You know what used to scare me beyond belief, though? Eternity? Not eternity in hell. Just eternity Even a blissful one. No end. Ever. Ever. I've said it before and I'll say it again, human beings are finite and as much as this might be a scary thought, it is also an immense comfort. We are not made for infinity (well, we are not made to begin with, but that's a whole other story).

Also, I have OCD, too (and it did have some religious overtones, too), so I'd recommend you look for a way to deal with that, as it is quite probably the OCD that's at the root of the problem - it just seems to have taken the form of an obsession (in the technical sense) with hell in this case.

Don't know how coherent this was, am kinda hungry right now. Might get back to it after I've eaten something

Remember, it's a primal fear of pain and fire exploited for religious purposes.

Pity onone of the experts can agree on what hell actually is e.g. the hell Lorne Fox saw contradicts the Lady of Fatima's vision, etc.

[Xinoftruden]

Everything will be oootay ( T_T)＼(^-^ )

[Drunkin Druid]

i dont understand how a person fears something he doesnt believe exists. im not trying to be a smartass here. i honestly dont get it. i dont think a person can help what they believe when they are thinking rationally. if god is real and just then it wont matter to it what you believe. if god is real and unjust then you shouldnt worship it anyway. if hell is the price for your dignaty then only you can choose.. at any rate we can safely assume there is no hell and you have nothing to fear. just live your life as best as you can and if "god" truly loves you it will only concern itself with how you treat others.. if all it cares for is worship then to hell with it..