I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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03-02-2013, 12:39 PM
I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
Recent and past events on the forum have left me with a question in my head that I cannot answer, maybe someone here can. Why does everyone hate holocaust deniers?

I'm being completely serious, I really don't understand it. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubts that the holocaust did happen, I just don't understand why we vilify people who are more sceptical.

I'm sure this is the point when someone is gonna say that it's a recognised historical event and it's stupid to question it, which is true. However, people on here regularly say you should question everything and not believe official accounts, why do they change their viewpoint regarding this topic? Another point here is that the moon landing is an even more recent and just as accepted event. Why do we accept people questioning that, yet not the holocaust? We even have a whole section dedicated to conspiracy theories. It's clear that we have no problem with people questioning recognised events, why is this one different?

The next thing I imagine I may hear is something about the number of people who are witnesses who've testified that it happened. Wanna know what else huge numbers of people testify to having seen? God. We're atheists, we spend our lives dismissing eye-witness testimony as unreliable yet suddenly, on this topic, it becomes totally reliable all of a sudden, why?

Someone is also bound to say that only anti-Semitic, Neo-Nazis question the holocaust. I doubt this. I'll accept that a high number of holocaust deniers are Neo-Nazis, but I highly doubt all are. To state that is like stating all moon-landing sceptics are communists. It's a pretty wild assertion. I think we should hear people out rather than judge them on their beliefs. After all, how many of us (especially the Americans here) criticise Christians for judging people simply for being atheists?

Finally, I'd like to also ask why we all become so Christian like when faced with a holocaust denier? We spend our time on the rest of the forum (for the most part) discussing things civilly and debating using facts and evidence to try and dismantle each other's arguments. Why when a holocaust denial thread pops up do we drop this approach and start name-calling, insulting, and demeaning the person? And why do we fail to attack their arguments with evidence (I know some people are here have done this, a lot haven't though)?

This brings me to one last point. Wanna know what's arguably the worst part of this? People who attack holocaust deniers (such as Nappa) with ridicule, and abuse, and unbacked up assertions, actually inadvertently make him (and his views) look more legitimate. I gotta hand it to Nappa, mad as his beliefs are he tries to convey them calmly and tries to back them up with what he considers to be evidence and logical arguments. If you saw two people having an argument on a topic you knew nothing about, one was trying to be calm and make points based on evidence, whilst one was just slinging mud and presenting no evidence, who would you think most likely to be right?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 12:44 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
There is a huge difference between confirmed, well documented historical facts and poorly supported conspiracy theories.
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03-02-2013, 12:46 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 12:44 PM)kpax Wrote:  There is a huge difference between confirmed, well documented historical facts and unsupported conspiracy theories.

So we should vilify anyone who questions any well documented facts? Such as the moon landing?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 12:46 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2013 12:50 PM by Vera.)
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
[Image: polish_victim_of_nazi_concentration_camp_990-2040.jpg]
[Image: buchenwald5.jpg][Image: camp_children1.jpg][Image: nazi_concentration_camp7.gif]
[Image: corpses.jpg] [Image: 85117.jpg]

For the record, I have the same reaction (of disdain and pity) when people start telling me how great communism is. I've lived it, my family has lived it, people they know have "died it", so I know exactly how great it is.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-02-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 12:46 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  So we should vilify anyone who questions any well documented facts? Such as the moon landing?

The term is holocaust deniers not holocaust questioners which implies they've already made up their minds.....
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03-02-2013, 12:51 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 12:49 PM)kpax Wrote:  The term is holocaust deniers not holocaust questioners which implies they've already made up their minds.....

OK, I re-phrase. So we should vilify all people who deny that the moon landing happened?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
So back to your question:

Quote:Why does everyone hate holocaust deniers?

Don't know. I guess it kinda pisses people off when someone acts like an insensitive douche bag.
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03-02-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 12:51 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  OK, I re-phrase. So we should vilify all people who deny that the moon landing happened?

Denying the moon landing doesn't involve as much douch-baggery. Thousands of people weren't murdered on the moon.
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03-02-2013, 12:56 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 12:52 PM)kpax Wrote:  So back to your question:

Quote:Why does everyone hate holocaust deniers?

Don't know. I guess it kinda pisses people off when someone acts like an insensitive douche bag.

Ah ha. Here it is. We should only question something when we're unlikely to offend anyone. That's the other point people make. They try and find more positive ways of phrasing it though.

Anyways, let's get back to my last question. You originally asserted that we vilify them for questioning well documented facts, surely that means we should vilify anyone who denies the moon landing?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 01:02 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 12:56 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Anyways, let's get back to my last question. You originally asserted that we vilify them for questioning well documented facts, surely that means we should vilify anyone who denies the moon landing?

No. YOU asserted that we [whoever we is] vilify people for questioning well documented facts. I simply answered your question.

Not every person responds to "questioning" well documented facts in the way you describe so your over generalization of whatever point you think you have is a little too simplistic. You are oversimplifying and overgeneralizing something complicated and circumstantial.
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