I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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04-02-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:49 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 01:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Incorrect, totally. Ask anyone in law enforcement, eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable.
Hughsie, most of the holocaust is BASED ON EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY! And a few forced 'confessions' which was the entire purpose of the Nuremberg trials because they lacked any real physical evidence.
Besides the camps, mass graves, gas chambers, trains full of bodies, medical experiments performed on inmates...etc, etc.

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04-02-2013, 01:58 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:52 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 01:49 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Hughsie, most of the holocaust is BASED ON EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY! And a few forced 'confessions' which was the entire purpose of the Nuremberg trials because they lacked any real physical evidence.
Besides the camps, mass graves, gas chambers, trains full of bodies, medical experiments performed on inmates...etc, etc.
Eh you have a few mass graves to the east, that is and was no secret. Camps are evidence of internment, gas chambers are only said to have been gas chambers by eye witnesses, without the prussian blue staining they have no real weight to their argument. trains full of bodies because sick people were being transported from the front line areas. Medical experiments which were often performed on WILLING inmates.
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04-02-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
Special pleading, special pleading, special pleading, etc ad nauseum. It takes a special kind of...person...to take all the evidence and spin it into a new yarn to fit their conspiracy.

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04-02-2013, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 02:15 PM by kpax.)
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
I don't care that you deny the holocaust. We all know the holocaust happened. It's a well documented fact.

But if you want to go into conspiracy theorist wing nut mode, you might be posting at the wrong forum.

Hobo Just saying.

Huge difference between questioning for intelligent reasons versus just being plain ignorant for controversy's sake. One of those doesn't deserve the time of day.

Let's talk about gravity next and how it might really be a form of government control to keep us on this planet. Shocking OooOOOoo!
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04-02-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Ask anyone in law enforcement, eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable.


This is not applicable here, Hughsie.
If you ask 3 people what color hat the burglar wore, you might get different answers. Unreliable witnesses applies there.
If you ask hundreds of people if there were dead bodies, you stand a pretty decent chance that they will agree that there were dead bodies. One doesn't forget that a body was dead. The numbers may be off, but if everyone says the bodies were dead and naked, you can be pretty sure they were not sitting around a table wearing baseball caps and dark glasses playing poker.

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04-02-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  This is not applicable here, Hughsie.
If you ask 3 people what color hat the burglar wore, you might get different answers. Unreliable witnesses applies there.
If you ask hundreds of people if there were dead bodies, you stand a pretty decent chance that they will agree that there were dead bodies. One doesn't forget that a body was dead. The numbers may be off, but if everyone says the bodies were dead and naked, you can be pretty sure they were not sitting around a table wearing baseball caps and dark glasses playing poker.

It's totally applicable. Eye witnesses are unreliable on larger scale stuff too.

I heard of one 20th century incident where tens of thousands of people all claimed to have seen the sun fall from the sky.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 02:19 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:17 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  It's totally applicable. Eye witnesses are unreliable on larger scale stuff too.

I heard of one 20th century incident where tens of thousands of people all claimed to have seen the sun fall from the sky.

It's not like they just took eye witness account, packed it up and went home. There is so much more evidence to the holocaust than just eye witness accounts.
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04-02-2013, 02:25 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:19 PM)kpax Wrote:  It's not like they just took eye witness account, packed it up and went home. There is so much more evidence to the holocaust than just eye witness accounts.

I'm not denying the holocaust, I have no doubts it happened.

This thread is about people's attitudes to holocaust deniers. As a side note I pointed out people's inconsistent attitude to eye-witness testimony. Most of us here are atheists, whenever a theist says that many people have seen God or miracles we instantly dismiss eye-witness testimony as totally unreliable, yet when someone denies the holocaust we claim there are many witnesses as though eye-witness testimony is infallible. That is my point.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 02:25 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:17 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  This is not applicable here, Hughsie.
If you ask 3 people what color hat the burglar wore, you might get different answers. Unreliable witnesses applies there.
If you ask hundreds of people if there were dead bodies, you stand a pretty decent chance that they will agree that there were dead bodies. One doesn't forget that a body was dead. The numbers may be off, but if everyone says the bodies were dead and naked, you can be pretty sure they were not sitting around a table wearing baseball caps and dark glasses playing poker.

It's totally applicable. Eye witnesses are unreliable on larger scale stuff too.

I heard of one 20th century incident where tens of thousands of people all claimed to have seen the sun fall from the sky.
And did those people all see some event that was interpreted to be that very thing? Ergo, it sounds like they shared an experience but explained it incorrectly. The observation was valid, but the conclusion was not.

Observations are not incorrect. They just are what they are. Conclusions can be flawed.

The notion that observations could be wrong en masse would mean that these people would all have to be experiencing the same delusion or hallucination, at the same time, about the same thing, and in different regions.

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04-02-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:17 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  This is not applicable here, Hughsie.
If you ask 3 people what color hat the burglar wore, you might get different answers. Unreliable witnesses applies there.
If you ask hundreds of people if there were dead bodies, you stand a pretty decent chance that they will agree that there were dead bodies. One doesn't forget that a body was dead. The numbers may be off, but if everyone says the bodies were dead and naked, you can be pretty sure they were not sitting around a table wearing baseball caps and dark glasses playing poker.

It's totally applicable. Eye witnesses are unreliable on larger scale stuff too.

I heard of one 20th century incident where tens of thousands of people all claimed to have seen the sun fall from the sky.
So you are saying that thousands of people who lived then and saw dead Jews all suffer from illusions and the photographs are all staged? (No photoshop then)?
I think your position is losing credibility now, at least for me.
And while I don't take part in holocaust discussions in general, I am quite sure that members here treat conspiracy theorists the same they treat anyone with delusions.
Also, keep in mind that humans have evolved to feel empathy - and once they do empathize, they tend to defend the ones they empathize with. In this case the Jews during the holocaust.
It's perfectly natural and the way it's supposed to be.

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