I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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04-02-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:42 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Agreed, but even the event you cite was a matter of suggestion to the people encouraged to stare at the sun. That is biased eye-witness testimony and anything that is biased is bad anyways. It could be biased statistics and we would not say that all statistics are rubbish, just biased statistics.

When people use the denial of eye-witness testimony for things like the holocaust, it is not because they believe those eye-witnesses were given suggestions and encouraged to see it, but that they are either wholly fabricated or that their perfectly legitimate observations draw the wrong conclusion.
unbelievable that if the nazi's were committing mass murder they'd just leave dead bodies laying around. Unbelievable that the nazi's would intentionally destroy crematoriums their only way of disposing these dead bodies for good. Must have died sometime after all these alleged mass murders and mass burnings.
They did not just leave them out in the open (mass graves)


Cremation takes time, and when you are killing more people than you can cremate (bodies tend to decompose and become really difficult to manipulate when they are mush), crematoriums are pointless.

Or, you destroy the evidence in the case of crematoriums.

And when you are convinced you are going to be the dominant world-power, why would you take measures to cover the tracks for your actions you consider to be the way of attaining your image of a perfect world? The idea would be for everyone to eventually know and encourage such behavior.

And at the end of the Nazis reign, they began to try and kill more and faster with no concern for disposal. Because they could and because they wanted them all dead. That was part of the point after all.


But I suppose it is much more logical that Anne Franke was just a liar...

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04-02-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  That's fine and good. And people react to holocaust conspiracists the way they do because humans have evolved to feel empathy, and they defend the ones they empathize with, and that is natural and the way it should be.
It furthers the human race.

People need to have empathy but they also need to be able to detach it. Think of an American police officer investigating the murder of a child. He's gotta keep control and carry out his investigation, you don't want him just shooting any remotely viable suspect because he can't control his emotional side. Think of me at work yesterday, one of my co-workers deserved to have my foot so far up their ass they could taste my shoe, but I had to detach myself from the situation.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 02:51 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:44 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Or to confess to a crime they never committed.

That happens a lot but isn't any issue with eye witness testimony for the most part. It's that interrogators use techniques designed to put pressure on people, and these techniques work whether the person is guilty or not.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
Ok Nappa, I don't engage in these discussions as a rule, I am in this thread because Hughsie questioned the motivation of people who vehemently oppose your opinions.
But since you are here, I'll say my two bits about it:
I'm German, and I say it happened. There were dead people by the droves and the majority of them was Jewish (there were a lot of various other nationalities too, including a shitload of Germans who were suspected of disagreeing with Hitler).
If you want to argue something that people may actually consider, it is that there is a possibility that the mass murder was not planned as such from the start, but started happening after the disease outbreak, to contain the disease.
That doesn't excuse it, but it changes the picture somewhat, and it's possible since no one can know another person's motivation for sure.
But to say that there were no heaps of emaciated dead bodies is ridiculous.
So, and that's all I am going to say about this to you.

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04-02-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  That's fine and good. And people react to holocaust conspiracists the way they do because humans have evolved to feel empathy, and they defend the ones they empathize with, and that is natural and the way it should be.
It furthers the human race.

People need to have empathy but they also need to be able to detach it. Think of an American police officer investigating the murder of a child. He's gotta keep control and carry out his investigation, you don't want him just shooting any remotely viable suspect because he can't control his emotional side. Think of me at work yesterday, one of my co-workers deserved to have my foot so far up their ass they could taste my shoe, but I had to detach myself from the situation.

That's not empathy, that's revenge.

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04-02-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:47 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  They did not just leave them out in the open (mass graves)


Cremation takes time, and when you are killing more people than you can cremate (bodies tend to decompose and become really difficult to manipulate when they are mush), crematoriums are pointless.

Or, you destroy the evidence in the case of crematoriums.

And when you are convinced you are going to be the dominant world-power, why would you take measures to cover the tracks for your actions you consider to be the way of attaining your image of a perfect world? The idea would be for everyone to eventually know and encourage such behavior.

And at the end of the Nazis reign, they began to try and kill more and faster with no concern for disposal. Because they could and because they wanted them all dead. That was part of the point after all.


But I suppose it is much more logical that Anne Franke was just a liar...
No, but it is logical that the person who wrote Anne Franke's diary is not actually Anne Franke.

Now then how long would it take to cremate someone? A few hours right? because eye witness testimony says it took 10-20 minutes, and that's if they weren't burning corpses in an open pit without any fuel besides the bodies themselves. Bodies are not very combustible you know?
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04-02-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:55 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Now then how long would it take to cremate someone? A few hours right? because eye witness testimony says it took 10-20 minutes, and that's if they weren't burning corpses in an open pit without any fuel besides the bodies themselves. Bodies are not very combustible you know?

Human nature is so ridiculous at times. Now you're doing exactly what I've just accused everyone else of.

I claim that everyone else is inconsistent as they always dismiss eye-witness testimony and then try and claim it as evidence when it's in their favour, now you've done exactly the same. Gotta love the irony.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:58 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Eh you have a few mass graves to the east, that is and was no secret. Camps are evidence of internment, gas chambers are only said to have been gas chambers by eye witnesses, without the prussian blue staining they have no real weight to their argument. trains full of bodies because sick people were being transported from the front line areas. Medical experiments which were often performed on WILLING inmates.


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04-02-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:55 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:47 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  They did not just leave them out in the open (mass graves)


Cremation takes time, and when you are killing more people than you can cremate (bodies tend to decompose and become really difficult to manipulate when they are mush), crematoriums are pointless.

Or, you destroy the evidence in the case of crematoriums.

And when you are convinced you are going to be the dominant world-power, why would you take measures to cover the tracks for your actions you consider to be the way of attaining your image of a perfect world? The idea would be for everyone to eventually know and encourage such behavior.

And at the end of the Nazis reign, they began to try and kill more and faster with no concern for disposal. Because they could and because they wanted them all dead. That was part of the point after all.


But I suppose it is much more logical that Anne Franke was just a liar...
No, but it is logical that the person who wrote Anne Franke's diary is not actually Anne Franke.

Now then how long would it take to cremate someone? A few hours right? because eye witness testimony says it took 10-20 minutes, and that's if they weren't burning corpses in an open pit without any fuel besides the bodies themselves. Bodies are not very combustible you know?
I'm not discussing this with you, like I said. This thread is not about that. It's about why people oppose you with such vehemence.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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04-02-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 02:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:55 PM)Nappa Wrote:  Now then how long would it take to cremate someone? A few hours right? because eye witness testimony says it took 10-20 minutes, and that's if they weren't burning corpses in an open pit without any fuel besides the bodies themselves. Bodies are not very combustible you know?

Human nature is so ridiculous at times. Now you're doing exactly what I've just accused everyone else of.

I claim that everyone else is inconsistent as they always dismiss eye-witness testimony and then try and claim it as evidence when it's in their favour, now you've done exactly the same. Gotta love the irony.
Jeez Hughsie I was just trying to help! GOSH!

Besides I'm not using eye-witness testimony to prove the holocaust, I was simply showing the contradiction to physics.
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