I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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06-02-2013, 04:53 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
I haven't read every reply to this thread, but think a few important points are missing in the responses.

Firstly, as I rule I don't think that people who care about this issue vilify people who ask questions. It is the people who invent answers with no basis in truth and cling to those false ideas with no hope of correction that are concerning, and here's why: It can happen again.

Millions of people can by brutally and systematically murdered again. The nazis were morally broken, but they aren't unique. This can happen again. In the eventuality of time it will happen again. It has happened again on smaller scales, but it will happen again on larger scales unless...

Unless we remember and we refuse to let it happen.

Holocaust deniers aren't vilified because they hold an unpopular view of history. They aren't vilified because they are wrong. They are vilified because they themselves are vilifying all of the innocent victims of this atrocity, but more: They are vilified because they are ready through their failure to learn from the past to let it happen again.

If the holocaust occurred and society came to believe that it never occurred, then it is bound to occur again. It is socially unacceptable to forget such an important piece of history. It is socially unacceptable to ignore its lessons. So it bloody well should be.

Moon landing conspiracy nuts? Dumb and deluded. Outright holocaust deniers unquestioning of their own position and unbendable in their ignorance? Morally broken people.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-02-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(06-02-2013 04:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I haven't read every reply to this thread, but think a few important points are missing in the responses.
Not trying to be contrarian, but those things have been pointed out. Of course, they do bear repeating.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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06-02-2013, 06:37 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
I choose my words carefully but its controversial because it goes against peoples beliefs systems on so many levels.

1: The goverment is for the good of the people and would never Lie about anything.
2: Wars are fought for freedom and no other agendas.

There is the "truth"

From this there is one side of the story "allies"
Then there is the other side of the story "enemy"
Choose your side, choose your belief.

Propaganda.... people using faith and indoctrination to fuel their reasoning to kill other human beings. Fast forward to today and fuck all has changed.

You're never going to say the things you want to say.
The things you want to change will usually stay that way
The promises you break outweigh the ones you keep.
Paint upon the wall for the hundredth time.

Jesus Jones
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06-02-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 03:52 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 03:48 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Sorry, couldn't resist. Smile
It's alright, I've learned to anticipate many forms of reactions.

I just want people to be able to watch Team Four Star without having to think about me and my edginess. To put it simply I don't want to kill the show for them.
That went away before you changed your name, it started with the reason you chose to change the name, by constantly posting the video clips of the abridged show... But I haven't watched it in a year and a half since I was with an ex. So I'm fine with the situation.

As for people in general, some like the public figures who are out there going on about to say it and try to do research to prove their point, appear to be anti-Semite or at least anti-Israel and strongly against supporting the Jewish population. It just defames their Ethos and credibility because it comes off as starting with a bias opposed to creating a conclusion off of seeing evidence openly. I'm not one who is a big pro Israel person either but I understand many get riled up because of this aspect.

The issues I've seen more on this forum with those types of people is their attitude and mentality verse the actual denial of what they define as the holocaust. It's a matter of being absurd and making claims that those who disagree with them aren't skeptical or only stick to one identified story they define as the general accepted truth.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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07-02-2013, 07:34 AM
 
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
Careful Hughsie, you may get so disgusted with atheists you will quit their ranks.
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07-02-2013, 08:41 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(07-02-2013 07:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  Careful Hughsie, you may get so disgusted with atheists you will quit their ranks.


I take offence at that statement.


I do so as proxy for Hughsie. How dare you insult his intelligence like that.





You me, right now. Flintlock pistols at 40 paces.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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07-02-2013, 03:15 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because holocaust denial is invariably a veneer over antisemitism, racism, and glorification of Nazis.

It is a conspiracy theory used in service of hatred. It is dishonest on multiple levels.

The evidence for the deaths of millions of people at the hands of the Nazis is incontrovertible.

If one wants to argue whether 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 or more were gassed as opposed to some other manner of death, we can have an evidence-based discussion that might even be mildly interesting. But to deny the deaths of millions were not the result of racism and antisemitism and a perverted eugenic dream is nothing more than a denial of humanity, reason, and evidence.

Well said.
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07-02-2013, 03:28 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 09:10 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 12:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Recent and past events on the forum have left me with a question in my head that I cannot answer, maybe someone here can. Why does everyone hate holocaust deniers?
I don't hate the Holocaust Deniers as much as I despise them.

. . .

When they post on an Atheist Board, they give us Atheists a bad name.

This.
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07-02-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(06-02-2013 05:49 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(06-02-2013 04:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I haven't read every reply to this thread, but think a few important points are missing in the responses.
Not trying to be contrarian, but those things have been pointed out. Of course, they do bear repeating.

Also...

Bowing Hafnof ... succinct and eloquent. Bowing

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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07-02-2013, 11:40 PM
 
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(07-02-2013 08:41 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(07-02-2013 07:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  Careful Hughsie, you may get so disgusted with atheists you will quit their ranks.


I take offence at that statement.


I do so as proxy for Hughsie. How dare you insult his intelligence like that.





You me, right now. Flintlock pistols at 40 paces.

Tomorrow's my full marital art workout. Might as well work out on you. Undecided
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