I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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03-02-2013, 01:25 PM
I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
The difference between the reactions to those questioning the moon landing and those questioning the holocaust is the personal nature of the two events. Personally, after having seen the evidence, including a laser atop Haleakala Observatory in Maui Hawaii bouncing off of reflectors placed on the moon and returning to earth (I watched the experiment myself), I have no reasonable doubt that we landed there. If someone chooses to not believe in the event, it is harmless and silly, but as a human being, it does not effect me on an emotional level.
I have been to Germany and seen artifacts and memorials from that time. None of the Germans I have ever met denied the Holocaust, and they would have the most to gain from it being proven some hoax.
When someone denies that the Holocaust happened, it is an affront to the memory of those millions that died, and as a feeling human being, that effects me, and many others on an emotional level. I don't think we, as a species, should ever willfully forget what happened in those dark years. Otherwise, history will repeat itself.
This doesn't excuse name calling, or poor arguments, but it is understandable that emotions become part of the mix.
As for questioning EVERYTHING, I think that is an over simplification, or over reach, of what it means to be skeptical. You only have one lifetime to study and learn. If you choose to believe NOTHING until you can verify every bit yourself, you will miss out on a lot of what life has to offer. Reasoned learning of subjects, including digesting the works of intellectual giants that came before us, and those of our time, should suffice to sift through the chaff to discover what can be considered 'truth'. That is what makes science so amazing. We can stand on the shoulders of those who came before, and thus see even farther. We don't have to learn Pi or reinvent the wheel to know the wonders of the circle. Be skeptical of those things that have little or no evidence to back them up, like religion or holocaust denial, but be prepared to accept some things and devote your thoughts to the real mysteries. Don't have such an open mind that your brain falls out.
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03-02-2013, 01:27 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:23 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Still though, the question remains. Should we hate, or vilify, or attack people simply for being stupid?

If you really need an answer to this question....I will put your name in the local church's prayer list, I swear. *sigh*
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03-02-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:23 PM)kim Wrote:  Using only holy literature to confirm a hypothesis is somewhat akin to using only nazi literature to confirm a hypothesis.

Exactly. But we don't hate people simply for believing in God. We disagree with them and think them stupid, or misguided (depending on our level of cynicism). We don't simply hate them outright though simply based on their belief in God.

(03-02-2013 01:23 PM)kim Wrote:  Well, millions of people were not murdered in conjunction with the moon landings.... Consider or do you know something you're not saying, Hughsie ... ?

Well the moon is the ultimate place to hide any bodies, unless you count Pluto of course. Evil_monster

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:25 PM)Tanus Barbarus Wrote:  Don't have such an open mind that your brain falls out.

Bowing I am so loving you right now. Bowing

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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03-02-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:25 PM)Tanus Barbarus Wrote:  The difference between the reactions to those questioning the moon landing and those questioning the holocaust is the personal nature of the two events. Personally, after having seen the evidence, including a laser atop Haleakala Observatory in Maui Hawaii bouncing off of reflectors placed on the moon and returning to earth (I watched the experiment myself), I have no reasonable doubt that we landed there. If someone chooses to not believe in the event, it is harmless and silly, but as a human being, it does not effect me on an emotional level.
I have been to Germany and seen artifacts and memorials from that time. None of the Germans I have ever met denied the Holocaust, and they would have the most to gain from it being proven some hoax.
When someone denies that the Holocaust happened, it is an affront to the memory of those millions that died, and as a feeling human being, that effects me, and many others on an emotional level. I don't think we, as a species, should ever willfully forget what happened in those dark years. Otherwise, history will repeat itself.
This doesn't excuse name calling, or poor arguments, but it is understandable that emotions become part of the mix.
As for questioning EVERYTHING, I think that is an over simplification, or over reach, of what it means to be skeptical. You only have one lifetime to study and learn. If you choose to believe NOTHING until you can verify every bit yourself, you will miss out on a lot of what life has to offer. Reasoned learning of subjects, including digesting the works of intellectual giants that came before us, and those of our time, should suffice to sift through the chaff to discover what can be considered 'truth'. That is what makes science so amazing. We can stand on the shoulders of those who came before, and thus see even farther. We don't have to learn Pi or reinvent the wheel to know the wonders of the circle. Be skeptical of those things that have little or no evidence to back them up, like religion or holocaust denial, but be prepared to accept some things and devote your thoughts to the real mysteries. Don't have such an open mind that your brain falls out.
It's illegal to question or deny the holocaust in germany and many countries in europe, punishable by up to 3 years in prison. I've also learned it's illegal to question or deny the Holodomor in the Ukraine punishable by up to 2 years in prison.
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03-02-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:25 PM)Tanus Barbarus Wrote:  The difference between the reactions to those questioning the moon landing and those questioning the holocaust is the personal nature of the two events. Personally, after having seen the evidence, including a laser atop Haleakala Observatory in Maui Hawaii bouncing off of reflectors placed on the moon and returning to earth (I watched the experiment myself), I have no reasonable doubt that we landed there. If someone chooses to not believe in the event, it is harmless and silly, but as a human being, it does not effect me on an emotional level.
I have been to Germany and seen artifacts and memorials from that time. None of the Germans I have ever met denied the Holocaust, and they would have the most to gain from it being proven some hoax.
When someone denies that the Holocaust happened, it is an affront to the memory of those millions that died, and as a feeling human being, that effects me, and many others on an emotional level. I don't think we, as a species, should ever willfully forget what happened in those dark years. Otherwise, history will repeat itself.
This doesn't excuse name calling, or poor arguments, but it is understandable that emotions become part of the mix.
As for questioning EVERYTHING, I think that is an over simplification, or over reach, of what it means to be skeptical. You only have one lifetime to study and learn. If you choose to believe NOTHING until you can verify every bit yourself, you will miss out on a lot of what life has to offer. Reasoned learning of subjects, including digesting the works of intellectual giants that came before us, and those of our time, should suffice to sift through the chaff to discover what can be considered 'truth'. That is what makes science so amazing. We can stand on the shoulders of those who came before, and thus see even farther. We don't have to learn Pi or reinvent the wheel to know the wonders of the circle. Be skeptical of those things that have little or no evidence to back them up, like religion or holocaust denial, but be prepared to accept some things and devote your thoughts to the real mysteries. Don't have such an open mind that your brain falls out.

I can understand this. I sometimes suspect I'm better than most people at detaching my emotions. I can detach my rational side from my emotional side in almost any situation. Maybe other people cannot do this so easily, I don't know. I still think the point still stands that it is a negative action to attack someone based on our emotional reaction to a situation as opposed to any type of rational thought though.

On the questioning everything I didn't mean that we should personally question everything. I meant that there shouldn't be anything that is off-limits to scrutiny.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:27 PM)kpax Wrote:  If you really need an answer to this question....I will put your name in the local church's prayer list, I swear. *sigh*

I know what my answer to that question is. I don't think we should. I feel as though I am in the minority though. Hence the thread.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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03-02-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:32 PM)Nappa Wrote:  It's illegal to question or deny the holocaust in germany and many countries in europe, punishable by up to 3 years in prison. I've also learned it's illegal to question or deny the Holodomor in the Ukraine punishable by up to 2 years in prison. So if I don't believe that the holodomor happened which may be an outcome I can be imprisoned for up to 5 years in the Ukraine if I don't believe in the Holocaust or the Holodomor.

Well, I suggest you hop a plane right this minute. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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03-02-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:23 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Oh I agree it's an elevated level of stupid. I'm not sure whether I would call it a vile form of stupid. That would suggest that there can be positive and negative forms of stupid. I kinda think that stupid is stupid, it's neither positive or negative, if you get what I mean (and I understand if you don't, I'm well aware of how unclear that sounds Big Grin).
It is vile, though. Not only because it belittles (to put it extremely lightly) the suffering and death of millions, but because it is done either as a result of one's being a racist excuse for a human being or of trying to prove one is smarter than the rest of the world and hundreds of historians. While one is just unimaginably dumb.


Also, you know the cliché about history and repeating it if you do not learn from it. Denying one of the greatest monstrosities humanity is guilty of, is a surefire way of ensuring we do something equally horrific in the future. And this I'm not willing to risk for the sake of being politically correct to a bunch of idiots, who have nothing better to do than masturbate their little egos and even smaller brains.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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03-02-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 01:35 PM)kim Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 01:32 PM)Nappa Wrote:  It's illegal to question or deny the holocaust in germany and many countries in europe, punishable by up to 3 years in prison. I've also learned it's illegal to question or deny the Holodomor in the Ukraine punishable by up to 2 years in prison. So if I don't believe that the holodomor happened which may be an outcome I can be imprisoned for up to 5 years in the Ukraine if I don't believe in the Holocaust or the Holodomor.

Well, I suggest you hop a plane right this minute. Drinking Beverage
Yeah turns out I was wrong about it being illegal to question the holocaust in Ukraine, just the Holodomor it seems.
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