I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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04-02-2013, 06:18 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 06:15 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Again, I wouldn't hate someone for believing any of those things, I'd just think them very stupid.
Like Dom said - I don't hate them. Do I think they're pathetic? Damn straight I do. Difficult to hate someone you pity, though.

I may dislike some of them, as people, but that's based on how they act, not on what they believe.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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04-02-2013, 06:22 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 06:15 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's not that no one can question it. It's that at some point every rational person should accept evidence as evidence, whether it fits their frame of reference or not. Otherwise, there would be no science at all.
And you keep talking about hate.
Hate? Really? Are you talking about actual hate? Or are you using this losely like the contemporary expression "haters" or "stop hating on me"?
Because hate is a very strong word, and I don't think I have ever hated anyone in my life, nor do I ever want to.

You may be right. Hate is perhaps too strong a word. I'm talking about the negative way people react to anyone who doubts the holocaust. From what I've seen most people go into Nappa's threads with the intention of slinging mud at him, not engaging him. And this has happened from day one, before anyone had a chance to judge him as a person. It's not just on this forum though, it's in society in general. Doubting the holocaust openly seems to mean social rejection in most of Europe.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 06:36 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 05:56 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Holocaust deniers, moon landing deniers, flat earthers, people who think George Bush carried out 9/11, homeopathists. They're all in the same boat for me, I don't hate or try and vilify any of them. I pity them for being so incapable of effectively analysing the evidence.

I guess this thread has confirmed what I already suspected. People vilify holocaust deniers ahead of the others because of the gravity of the holocaust, it's an emotional reaction. I still don't think we should decide what we can and can't question (and how strongly) on how horrific the event in question was though so I don't think I'll ever agree with it.


You didn't understand the answers. Holocaust denial is a cover for antisemitism and racism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 06:38 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 06:22 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Doubting the holocaust openly seems to mean social rejection in most of Europe.


As it should.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 06:49 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
Fact of the matter is, there is zero reason for anyone to deny the holocaust. Zero. Ergo, those that do, do it because they have another agenda. It's not that they're open or curious or just plain fucking nuts, it's because the holocaust is so goddamned inconvenient if you wanna be a neo-nazi and lay some claim to being a good guy at the same time. You feel like a dolt saying 'Hitler killed X millions of people, but I think it'd be a good idea if we tried the whole deal *again*', so you have to first say 'Hitler didn't kill X million people, he's just misunderstood'. But the problem for all those poor frustrated neo-nazis, is that it's socially unacceptable to say that, because it's not true, so they have these ding-dong arguments about how the holocaust never really happened without ever getting to (for them) the good stuff where they preach the gospel of Adolf Christ and dream their poisonous dreams of the day when all the unbelievers get what's coming to them... And so they complain of the vile treatment they receive at the hands of skeptics and demand to be equally respected for their beliefs...

Fuck that.
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04-02-2013, 07:27 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 06:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  You didn't understand the answers. Holocaust denial is a cover for antisemitism and racism.

You didn't read the OP. I already addressed this point there. This thread is specifically about people who are not Neo-Nazis, it's about your average conspiracy theory person who's only crime is latching onto the wrong conspiracy theory.

Any answers addressing Neo-Nazis or anti-Semitism are not relevant to the question I'm asking.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 07:50 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 07:27 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 06:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  You didn't understand the answers. Holocaust denial is a cover for antisemitism and racism.

You didn't read the OP. I already addressed this point there. This thread is specifically about people who are not Neo-Nazis, it's about your average conspiracy theory person who's only crime is latching onto the wrong conspiracy theory.

Any answers addressing Neo-Nazis or anti-Semitism are not relevant to the question I'm asking.


Every Holocaust denier I have interacted with is antisemitic/racist/neo-Nazi. That is not proof that they all are, but there don't seem to be very many who aren't.

So it really is relevant as you are talking about a tiny minority of Holocaust-deniers.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 07:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  Every Holocaust denier I have interacted with is antisemitic/racist/neo-Nazi. That is not proof that they all are, but there don't seem to be very many who aren't.

So it really is relevant as you are talking about a tiny minority of Holocaust-deniers.

I started a thread about why we react badly to holocaust deniers who aren't racists.

If you don't think that is a relevant thing to discuss then no-one's making you post.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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04-02-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 10:04 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 07:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  Every Holocaust denier I have interacted with is antisemitic/racist/neo-Nazi. That is not proof that they all are, but there don't seem to be very many who aren't.

So it really is relevant as you are talking about a tiny minority of Holocaust-deniers.

I started a thread about why we react badly to holocaust deniers who aren't racists.

If you don't think that is a relevant thing to discuss then no-one's making you post.

I am posting because your assumption that there are Holocaust deniers who aren't racist is questionable at best.
If there are, they are a tiny fraction of them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 10:30 AM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 10:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am posting because your assumption that there are Holocaust deniers who aren't racist is questionable at best.
If there are, they are a tiny fraction of them.

People with a mind for conspiracy theories (and other associated bullshit) can latch on to practically any of them. Whether it be the moon landing, homeopathy, 9/11, or the holocaust. I would think there are two main groups within holocaust deniers; Neo-Nazis, and conspiracy theorists. I imagine the number of conspiracy theorists who disbelieve in the holocaust is higher than we realise as a large percentage probably don't make their views known for fear of being labelled racists.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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