I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
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04-02-2013, 12:12 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(03-02-2013 11:39 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  Question everything... until you are presented with evidence and facts.

Beyond that, you become a conspiracy theorist.
You hit the nail on the head.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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04-02-2013, 12:19 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
While there might be those who do vilify Holocaust deniers I don't think it's a universal thing. I would say though that when an issue is resolved in the scientific community and the evidence is conclusive on the subject then many that do maintain a "skeptical" position start to lean more towards the belief/faith position. Along the lines of Ancient Aliens, Illuminati/NWO, and others.

Just an outsider looking inn.
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04-02-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
You can either agree with everything someone says, or disagree with everything someone says. Either way, you never have to think for yourself again.

I am not exactly sure who said that, but I have heard it attributed to Lincoln. The point is that there are 2 bad ways to go about how you take information in. Believing it because they said so (or because you want to) = faith. Or denying what they say because they said it = faith. They really are the same thing and I think that is why people get so infuriated when they encounter a religious nut who can't see that their faith is irrational and why a holocaust/moon-landing denier (or any other crazy conspiracy theorist) is seen in the same light. It is the assertion that their position must be correct and damn any evidence contrary to it.

People get annoyed/pissed-off at those who shut down their cognitive faculties as a means by which to preserve their beliefs and perhaps even more enraged when they cherry-pick bullshit to try and further justify their beliefs while special pleading away the rest of the evidence contrary to their point.

It is not the fact that they are questioning or a skeptic that invokes vilification, it is the stupid that begs for it.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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04-02-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 11:47 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Do I hate conspiracy nuts? Not at all. I pity them.

What I do hate (well, I don't ever really hate, so let's leave it at dislike) is the ones who think they're smarter than everyone else, who brag, boast, cajole, and taunt about it, who belittle me and anyone else who doesn't share their particular lunacy, and generally come off as obnoxious, arrogant, unlikable, dickheads.

Those guys I dislike.

(Side note, "dickheads" is accepted by spellchecker - I didn't expect that one to get a pass)
My god, you must hate a lot of atheists then!
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04-02-2013, 01:23 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:11 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 11:47 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Do I hate conspiracy nuts? Not at all. I pity them.

What I do hate (well, I don't ever really hate, so let's leave it at dislike) is the ones who think they're smarter than everyone else, who brag, boast, cajole, and taunt about it, who belittle me and anyone else who doesn't share their particular lunacy, and generally come off as obnoxious, arrogant, unlikable, dickheads.

Those guys I dislike.

(Side note, "dickheads" is accepted by spellchecker - I didn't expect that one to get a pass)
My god, you must hate a lot of atheists then!


You seem to have missed the phrase "share their particular lunacy". You don't appear to be able to read critically. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 01:11 PM)Nappa Wrote:  My god, you must hate a lot of atheists then!


You seem to have missed the phrase "share their particular lunacy". You don't appear to be able to read critically. Drinking Beverage
Ah hear comes the 'thinking they're smarter than everyone else and belittling others who don't share their beliefs. Undecided
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04-02-2013, 01:38 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:35 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 01:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  You seem to have missed the phrase "share their particular lunacy". You don't appear to be able to read critically. Drinking Beverage
Ah hear comes the 'thinking they're smarter than everyone else and belittling others who don't share their beliefs. Undecided


You really do seem unable to read with understanding.

And, yes, I conclude that I am smarter than you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 11:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Not a single person on here said that he hates holocaust deniers. Why are you making that up?

Point has already been addressed in the thread.

(04-02-2013 11:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  You are confusing skepticism with denial. The stance of holocaust deniers is not that there is some doubt about whether or not the holocaust happened, but that it is certain that it did not happen.

Point has already been addressed in the thread. Furthermore it is totally irrelevant.

(04-02-2013 11:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Again, you are confusing questioning with flat-out denial.

Again, it has already been addressed.

(04-02-2013 11:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  The difference is simple, really. The perception of one group is biased because it is influenced by a pre-existing religious belief while the other one is not.

Incorrect, totally. Ask anyone in law enforcement, eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable.

(04-02-2013 11:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  It would take only a single counter-example for this view to become null and void. Do you have one?

I don't understand this point.

(04-02-2013 11:12 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I suggest you to revisit the respective threads, because there were actually several people who addressed his arguments.

And I acknowledged that in the very section of text you quoted.

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04-02-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
I don't understand why this is a thing. I, personally, would hate on a denier because they generally marginalize a dark time in the history of the world by saying it didn't happen. My brother was killed in Iraq. It would be like someone saying "Stop dwelling on it. He was never killed."

Both of my grandfathers, were they alive, would feel as though they fought and killed for nothing in WW2 if it turns out that the holocaust never happened. Countless Japanese people would be pissed if there were a lot of atom bomb deniers. We would be angry if someone said that 9/11 never happened.

Whether or not the moon landing happened is a different thing entirely. Buzz didn't kill Neil on the moon. If we didn't go to the moon, then it just means that the government lied to us and tricked us, and diverted money from the taxpayers. If the holocaust didn't happen, then millions of people disappeared.

We, as skeptics, have to rely on facts and evidence, yes, but facts and evidence don't factor into emotional decisions. They inform them, yes, but something that involved the deaths of millions is going to make people angry when people say "Meh, didn't happen."
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04-02-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: I have a feeling I'm about to be controversial .........
(04-02-2013 01:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Incorrect, totally. Ask anyone in law enforcement, eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable.
Hughsie, most of the holocaust is BASED ON EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY! And a few forced 'confessions' which was the entire purpose of the Nuremberg trials because they lacked any real physical evidence.
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