I have a homosexual question and incest question?
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05-07-2014, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2014 12:21 PM by Luminon.)
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
(05-07-2014 10:33 AM)Kvitnar Wrote:  Imagine if every contry accepted homosexuality, and i'm not against it though because most of our values are based on greece democracy (With a little reactionary religion like christianity in the mix).

Now thats all good.

But...

What if brother and sister loves each other so much that they want to get married and live the rest of their life with each other, imagine incest parade where they are proud to be together.
Of course there will be a law where they cant create babies with each other otherwise it will be genetically bad, so they will adopt.

Now if that was set. If there would have been a vote poll for "Yes" or "No" for incest marriage.

What would you have answered?
The problem with incest is, it's not victimless. Yes, there are erotic stories and staged videos about this for an additional kinky factor. Drooling But I believe most of the cases it's sex abuse, a result of extreme power disparity between parents and children or siblings with a big.... age difference.
The greatest danger for children is their own family and family friends. Stranger danger, not so much.
http://www.svfreenyc.org/survivors_factsheet_37.html

The Psychohistory site writes that:
"When Sigmund Freud discovered that eighteen of his hysterical pa-tients had conscious memories of childhood sexual seductions, mostly by family members, he faced a theoretical impasse.(16) Since he believed only repressed memories could produce hysterical symptoms, the easily accessible detailed memories of his patients could not be the real cause of their hysteria. He therefore concluded that there must in each case have been an earlier seduction, the memory of which was repressed, generally occurring between the ages of two and five and never later than eight. These early scenes had to be reconstructed from fantasies and dreams, and even when Freud pieced them together for the patient, he admitted, "they have no feeling of remembering the scenes."(17)"
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html
I have heard a different story. I heard that Freud uncovered a vast network of pedophilia and child abuse in the highest Vienna families. His discovery caused a scandal. Instead of standing up for the victims and defedning them, Freud betrayed them and made up some nonsense about Oedipus and Electra syndrome that blamed the victims. The website says that Freud did not cover it up, but personally, I don't know if he actually saved anyone.


Violence or just power is the greater issue, not naughty bits. I personally would not raise hell if two similarly-aged siblings studied anatomy together out of curiosity - although if they're uninformed, it can lead to pregnancy, I have heard of such cases. I think if parents got a bit carried away with the birds and bees conversation and made a practical show, that is probably abusive, unless they are very careful and considerate. Real children are scared and grossed out by sex (it's some pretty intense stuff) and pre-teens also deadly em-bare-assed on top of that.

Technically, we are not genetically programmed against incest, but we are programmed against being turned on by those who we grew up with. This is why Israeli kibbutz idea failed, people growing up together were turned off by each other.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6424337.stm


As for homosexuality, there are some messed up cultural boundaries and we can be glad not all our culture is based on Greece. History and antroplogy are also sciences, but even science may be rather dirty sometimes Drinking Beverage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_i...ent_Greece
Ancient Greece is strange, but there are even dirtier records of sexual customs of some tribesmen in New Guinea. It's been a while since I read Robert P. Murphy's Introduction to cultural antropology. Most of all it reminded me of Vatican.
IIRC, the older tribesmen had a belief about maturation and sexuality. The belief said, that young men can not mature and produce... seed by themselves naturally, that it's a magical substance that has to be received. From whom? From their own uncles by blow job, of course! Surprise, surprise. Facepalm It's like when American men spread rumors about throat orgasm to women.

I think we should be grateful to the Age of Reason intellectuals for popularizing the vanilla marriage and undisturbed childhood Tongue I mean, there would be nothing wrong with kinky stuff, if most of these weird fetishes did not arise from childhood trauma and abuse and messed-up parenting and if it didn't lead to slow cultural development that makes a society remain the same for centuries or even millenia.
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05-07-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
I don't care. I doubt there is a lot of brothers and sisters out there that would want to marry, but it is none of my business if they do. Whatever floats your boat.

Where to draw the line? I guess just keep it between a human and a human as long as the partners understand marriage and what it is. I don't care if people have multiple husbands and wives if they are all informed and part of the binding. None of this concerns me so why would I need a say on what other people want to do? Sure, the thought of marrying one of my siblings is disgusting to me, but I also don't sit around thinking about boy on boy sex action. Not my cup of tea, but I'd vote for equality for all.

Tradition marriage means one thing to me, and that's the binding people as partners via love, but not who they are allowed to love and who they allowed to choose as their partners.

A wise person makes their own decisions; an ignorant one follows public opinion.
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05-07-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
(05-07-2014 12:28 PM)Elskidor Wrote:  I don't care. I doubt there is a lot of brothers and sisters out there that would want to marry, but it is none of my business if they do. Whatever floats your boat.

Where to draw the line? I guess just keep it between a human and a human as long as the partners understand marriage and what it is. I don't care if people have multiple husbands and wives if they are all informed and part of the binding. None of this concerns me so why would I need a say on what other people want to do? Sure, the thought of marrying one of my siblings is disgusting to me, but I also don't sit around thinking about boy on boy sex action. Not my cup of tea, but I'd vote for equality for all.

Tradition marriage means one thing to me, and that's the binding people as partners via love, but not who they are allowed to love and who they allowed to choose as their partners.

Legal Consent. That is the line. Children, Animals and inanimate objects are unable to give legal informed consent. Between informed Adults any consensual thing should not be illegal.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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05-07-2014, 12:56 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
The only significant problem I can see, is that while they may be consenting adults, and may agree not to conceive children... Without surgery, there is no sure fire way to make the risk of pregnancy zero.

How you could ensure that pregnancy is impossible without forcing the couple to be sterilized is a puzzle to me... That in itself would be a violation of the right to bodily integrity. As would a forced abortion.

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05-07-2014, 12:57 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
Well since this is the exact same thread from AF. I will give the exact same answer...

I have said it before and I will say it again.

I vote yes for legalizing marriage for mentally competent, consenting adults.

If a brother and sister want to get married, then that is none of my business.

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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05-07-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
(05-07-2014 12:56 PM)Sam Wrote:  The only significant problem I can see, is that while they may be consenting adults, and may agree not to conceive children... Without surgery, there is no sure fire way to make the risk of pregnancy zero.

How you could ensure that pregnancy is impossible without forcing the couple to be sterilized is a puzzle to me... That in itself would be a violation of the right to bodily integrity. As would a forced abortion.

The occasional accidental pregnancy (or in purpose I suppose) isn't going to be a huge deal first generation incest isn't going to cause defects and such. And I swear I read a study somewhere that human being are naturally inclined to dislike the idea of being romantic with anyone they were raised around even if they're not siblings. So I don't think it's likely to be a big thing.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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05-07-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
(05-07-2014 11:02 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 10:57 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Could you please expand upon what those are - not because I disbelieve you but it would help to stop a common theist retort....

There are several advantages, mostly in helping with child rearing. Also the sheer number of species that have homosexuality (several hundred do) lead one to think there must be some advantage for it to be so widespread. The science is not super advanced here as it is a question that has only been asked relatively recently but here is a link that summarises the current thinking.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12...90501.html

Oh you evil heathens, how you like to lie to promote the works of the flesh and Father of Evil, Satan.

It's EVERY god damn species that we know of :
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...122106.htm Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-07-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
(05-07-2014 01:00 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 12:56 PM)Sam Wrote:  The only significant problem I can see, is that while they may be consenting adults, and may agree not to conceive children... Without surgery, there is no sure fire way to make the risk of pregnancy zero.

How you could ensure that pregnancy is impossible without forcing the couple to be sterilized is a puzzle to me... That in itself would be a violation of the right to bodily integrity. As would a forced abortion.

The occasional accidental pregnancy (or in purpose I suppose) isn't going to be a huge deal first generation incest isn't going to cause defects and such. And I swear I read a study somewhere that human being are naturally inclined to dislike the idea of being romantic with anyone they were raised around even if they're not siblings. So I don't think it's likely to be a big thing.

That is pretty accurate. Even most unrelated step-siblings tend to observe the incest taboo (provided they were raised together from before puberty) there is good reason for it.

No as for your earlier thing about 1st generation incest not having problems that is not actually true they run a significantly higher risk of fatal gene combinations. We all have a few non-active fatal genes but the chances of a random person sharing the same gene (they are recessive so it has to be a match or they are inactive) is relatively low (this is why some couples are unable to have children together or have multiple miscarriages) however the chances that a 1 step relative (parent/offspring or sibling) would share fatal genes are like a 1/2 chance (I think been a while since I looked at this).

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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05-07-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
(05-07-2014 01:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 11:02 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  There are several advantages, mostly in helping with child rearing. Also the sheer number of species that have homosexuality (several hundred do) lead one to think there must be some advantage for it to be so widespread. The science is not super advanced here as it is a question that has only been asked relatively recently but here is a link that summarises the current thinking.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12...90501.html

Oh you evil heathens, how you like to lie to promote the works of the flesh and Father of Evil, Satan.

It's EVERY god damn species that we know of :
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...122106.htm Tongue

I knew it was a huge amount but I didn't realise it was all of them. Good to know.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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05-07-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: I have a homosexual question and incest question?
As long as they are 18 and up let'em fuck.

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