I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
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20-02-2017, 02:18 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Again with this nonsense? There is no evidence for god, hell or fairies existing and NDS are just hallucinations.

About low oxygen level - you conveniently forgot to post link to said study.

I couldn't find that one again but I found this which is similar: many cases against our current knowledge.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-n...periences/
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20-02-2017, 02:25 AM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2017 02:41 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:18 AM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  
(20-02-2017 02:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Again with this nonsense? There is no evidence for god, hell or fairies existing and NDS are just hallucinations.

About low oxygen level - you conveniently forgot to post link to said study.

I couldn't find that one again but I found this: many cases against our current knowledge.

http://www.near-death.com/science/theori...s.html#a05

You found some shit taken from shitty book. If you want to be treated seriously maybe find some serious study.

Scientific American may not be best place to look for science info but I found something interesting there.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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20-02-2017, 02:25 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
Anecdotes and science bashing.

If there was anything to this at all, I would expect at least one piece of credible evidence would have surfaced somewhere.

How can we possibly test whether someone's crazy experience really happened? If we're just relying on their description of it, we certainly can't. Their consciousness floating around the room and observing events is one thing (even this hasn't been demonstrated to be actually true, anecdotes don't count), but mystical hell-realms are quite another. How can you possibly distinguish between a real journey and a hallucination? If you can't, then it's rational to take the simplest explanation that requires the least number of assumptions. A hell journey would require quite a lot of extra assumptions, none of which have an ounce of evidence or credibility.

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20-02-2017, 02:41 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:25 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Anecdotes and science bashing.

If there was anything to this at all, I would expect at least one piece of credible evidence would have surfaced somewhere.

How can we possibly test whether someone's crazy experience really happened? If we're just relying on their description of it, we certainly can't. Their consciousness floating around the room and observing events is one thing (even this hasn't been demonstrated to be actually true, anecdotes don't count), but mystical hell-realms are quite another. How can you possibly distinguish between a real journey and a hallucination? If you can't, then it's rational to take the simplest explanation that requires the least number of assumptions. A hell journey would require quite a lot of extra assumptions, none of which have an ounce of evidence or credibility.

Did you read this article?
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-n...periences/

It essentially says "when the brain is out of oxygen, it starts firing rapidly in a disorganized fashion—it’s not working properly. From our knowledge of the brain, we would not expect organized experience in this state, but a jumble perhaps akin to what one might find in seizures or in mental illness—other examples of the brain not working correctly.

But what we get are vivid, organized, transformational experiences—people report that their NDEs feel “more real than real,” they feel free, that they understand the universe at a deep level, and have never been happier. This can happen both when the brain is not in immediate danger, and when it’s under severe duress because of a life-threatening situation.
Mind Power

Interestingly, when the brain is close to death, there is a higher incidence of cognitive enhancement—the mind feels unfettered and able to process more thoughts than usual. That we would find enhanced cognition under deprived conditions for the brain does not square with our understanding of brain function."
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20-02-2017, 02:49 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(20-02-2017 02:18 AM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  I couldn't find that one again but I found this: many cases against our current knowledge.

http://www.near-death.com/science/theori...s.html#a05

You found some shit taken from shitty book. If you want to be treated seriously maybe find some serious study.

Scientific American may not be best place to look for science info but I found something interesting there.

This article actually challenges Scientific American:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-n...periences/

It's pretty tough to argue against.
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20-02-2017, 02:52 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:41 AM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  
(20-02-2017 02:25 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Anecdotes and science bashing.

If there was anything to this at all, I would expect at least one piece of credible evidence would have surfaced somewhere.

How can we possibly test whether someone's crazy experience really happened? If we're just relying on their description of it, we certainly can't. Their consciousness floating around the room and observing events is one thing (even this hasn't been demonstrated to be actually true, anecdotes don't count), but mystical hell-realms are quite another. How can you possibly distinguish between a real journey and a hallucination? If you can't, then it's rational to take the simplest explanation that requires the least number of assumptions. A hell journey would require quite a lot of extra assumptions, none of which have an ounce of evidence or credibility.

Did you read this article?
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-n...periences/

It essentially says "when the brain is out of oxygen, it starts firing rapidly in a disorganized fashion—it’s not working properly. From our knowledge of the brain, we would not expect organized experience in this state, but a jumble perhaps akin to what one might find in seizures or in mental illness—other examples of the brain not working correctly.

But what we get are vivid, organized, transformational experiences—people report that their NDEs feel “more real than real,” they feel free, that they understand the universe at a deep level, and have never been happier. This can happen both when the brain is not in immediate danger, and when it’s under severe duress because of a life-threatening situation.
Mind Power

Interestingly, when the brain is close to death, there is a higher incidence of cognitive enhancement—the mind feels unfettered and able to process more thoughts than usual. That we would find enhanced cognition under deprived conditions for the brain does not square with our understanding of brain function."

Yeah, I read it. You're bashing the scientific explanations. That goes no further towards establishing that the events described by the person really happened. If you want to just believe it because it aligns with what you already believe, without requiring any evidence, that's up to you.

I don't give a monkeys how real it felt to them. I'm not doubting their sincerity.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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20-02-2017, 02:54 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:52 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(20-02-2017 02:41 AM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  Did you read this article?
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-n...periences/

It essentially says "when the brain is out of oxygen, it starts firing rapidly in a disorganized fashion—it’s not working properly. From our knowledge of the brain, we would not expect organized experience in this state, but a jumble perhaps akin to what one might find in seizures or in mental illness—other examples of the brain not working correctly.

But what we get are vivid, organized, transformational experiences—people report that their NDEs feel “more real than real,” they feel free, that they understand the universe at a deep level, and have never been happier. This can happen both when the brain is not in immediate danger, and when it’s under severe duress because of a life-threatening situation.
Mind Power

Interestingly, when the brain is close to death, there is a higher incidence of cognitive enhancement—the mind feels unfettered and able to process more thoughts than usual. That we would find enhanced cognition under deprived conditions for the brain does not square with our understanding of brain function."

Yeah, I read it. You're bashing the scientific explanations. That goes no further towards establishing the events described by the person really happened. If you want to just believe it because it aligns with what you already believe, without requiring any evidence, that's up to you.

I don't give a monkeys how real it felt to them. I'm not doubting their sincerity,

I think that what you are saying makes a lot of sense. I think it makes a whole lot more sense than what believers say. It's just that there are so many people who challenge science behind it and I am a little nervous in case I am wrong because I was brought up in the faith and still attend church and so it is hard to shake off these fears. I know that what you are saying is very intelligent and is rational.
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20-02-2017, 02:59 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
(20-02-2017 02:49 AM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  
(20-02-2017 02:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  You found some shit taken from shitty book. If you want to be treated seriously maybe find some serious study.

Scientific American may not be best place to look for science info but I found something interesting there.

This article actually challenges Scientific American:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-n...periences/

It's pretty tough to argue against.

There is nothing to argue against - SA article has links to actual studies, you posted some article focused on saying no, with no links to back it content.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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20-02-2017, 03:02 AM
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
The article basically picks out a handful of studies and says 'nuh-huh'. Where are the authors citations that substantiate his claims? (Clue: There aren't any).

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20-02-2017, 03:03 AM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2017 03:06 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: I have one question I would love for the atheists to answer!!!!!!!
Thank you Smile

Of course, people "challenge" science all the time. Anyone can write some bollocks on the Internet. If they have a genuine objection, then they'd take it to reputable scientific journals to be peer reviewed. If they don't, then you can assume it is hogwash.

If we don't have a scientific explanation, the next step is to continue to look for a scientific explanation. People who jump to their own pet conclusions are, like I say, employing the argument from ignorance. "You can't prove it isn't the case, so it is." I have a video about why this is not a good argument. It's best to look for positive evidence for a claim, not negative evidence for counter claims.

I understand the fear, because that's what religions work with. It's all they have, because none of it is based on reality. If there's some maniac sending people to hell, we're all screwed. We may as well forget about it and enjoy what little time we have before that happens. But since there is absolutely no evidence that this is the case, we can just ignore it anyhow.






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