I have proof science is bad?
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04-09-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
Is your argument "Some people I know ignorantly said some things that weren't true. How would you respond to that ?"

I like responding with the truth. If you care about the truth, you seek it out. If you don't, you join a religion and put on a happy glazed over smile that usually means your life is a delusional mess, but you're smiling so you don't care.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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04-09-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
I appreciate your responses. I am currently having a little debate on a social media site about it. I'll quote his response

"You also forget it was Christians that are the ones that pushed for the END of slavery and fought for civil rights in the 60's, not scientists. And there are scientists that say aliens have landed and who disagree on just about every issue of science. It was also scientists that promoted Eugenics and Hitler's whole philosophy. You want to find someone using the Bible in a crazy way? I can find a scientist that is using science in a crazy way"

What say you?
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04-09-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
Is a knife bad because it can be used to end someone's life? Is a knife good because it can be used to save someone's life?

The scientific method, much like a knife, is an amoral tool that can be used for a variety of purposes.

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04-09-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
(04-09-2014 12:01 PM)victormarte Wrote:  "You also forget it was Christians that are the ones that pushed for the END of slavery and fought for civil rights in the 60's, not scientists.
That's a lie. Some Christians contributed to the end of slavery, but many Christians were also slave holders and fought to keep it! Christians against Christians. Some things don't change. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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04-09-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
(04-09-2014 12:01 PM)victormarte Wrote:  I appreciate your responses. I am currently having a little debate on a social media site about it. I'll quote his response

"You also forget it was Christians that are the ones that pushed for the END of slavery and fought for civil rights in the 60's, not scientists. And there are scientists that say aliens have landed and who disagree on just about every issue of science. It was also scientists that promoted Eugenics and Hitler's whole philosophy. You want to find someone using the Bible in a crazy way? I can find a scientist that is using science in a crazy way"

What say you?

Given that American society was largely Christian in both the abolitionist era and the civil rights era, it would be surprising if Christians were NOT involved in any major movement. This includes the movements to end slavery and institute civil rights reform. It also includes the movements to perpetuate slavery and block civil rights reform. What's telling is that non-Christians were involved on both sides of these movements as well, so saying that any of them were exclusively Christian movements is patently false. Same with scientists and non-scientists. Neither science nor Christianity gains or loses any cred here... unless one of them claims moral guidance from an infallible being. Then being split on what we now know was a clear-cut moral issue kinda undermines that claim...

Eugenics is a subtle subject. Insofar that it was ever a science, it was the study of inherited traits in humans. (And in many cases, it was rather dismal science.) When the movement turned to breeding programs and forced sterilizations, it moved beyond the realm of science and into the realm of policy. Science may have taken a clearer picture of the world, but it was not science that made the decision to ACT in such heinous ways in light of that picture. As another example, science tells us that nuclear fission is possible and can produce an immense amount of energy, but science does not tell us to drop hydrogen bombs on civilian targets. By and large, if the message of science is "do this" or "don't do that", it isn't actually science. Science doesn't tell us what to do. It simply tells us what is the case, and what its implications are. How we navigate this knowledge is on us.

Hitler's "whole" philosophy had more to do with a centuries-long tradition of Christian antisemitism that seeped out of Christianity into general society, than with science. (Though it would be better to say that his whole philosophy was about militant nationalism, and "purifying" the nation of those he claimed were corrupting or sabotaging it was only a single element of that.) While he believed strongly in the superiority of the Aryan people, there was no peer-reviewed scientific basis for this belief.
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04-09-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
(04-09-2014 12:01 PM)victormarte Wrote:  I appreciate your responses. I am currently having a little debate on a social media site about it. I'll quote his response

"You also forget it was Christians that are the ones that pushed for the END of slavery and fought for civil rights in the 60's, not scientists. And there are scientists that say aliens have landed and who disagree on just about every issue of science. It was also scientists that promoted Eugenics and Hitler's whole philosophy. You want to find someone using the Bible in a crazy way? I can find a scientist that is using science in a crazy way"

What say you?

Ask your debate target/partner to identify where in the bible that rape and slavery is deemed to be immoral or wrong.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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04-09-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
"Science" isn't an ideology.

So there's that.

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04-09-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
(04-09-2014 12:01 PM)victormarte Wrote:  I appreciate your responses. I am currently having a little debate on a social media site about it. I'll quote his response

"You also forget it was Christians that are the ones that pushed for the END of slavery and fought for civil rights in the 60's, not scientists. And there are scientists that say aliens have landed and who disagree on just about every issue of science. It was also scientists that promoted Eugenics and Hitler's whole philosophy. You want to find someone using the Bible in a crazy way? I can find a scientist that is using science in a crazy way"

What say you?

There were Christians on both sides of the slavery and civil rights issues. I suspect in roughly equal numbers. Religion, science, parenting, police, etc, etc, etc can be abused, misused etc in some way.
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04-09-2014, 01:15 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
At work.

(04-09-2014 12:01 PM)victormarte Wrote:  You want to find someone using the Bible in a crazy way? I can find a scientist that is using science in a crazy way"

What say you?

The reply would be to this.

"No, I don't want to find people using the Bible in a crazy way. I want you to find people who are using the Bible in a SENSIBLE way. Show me WHERE the sense IS in the Bible. Since, it would seem, science always makes sense."

Much cheers to all
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04-09-2014, 01:29 PM
RE: I have proof science is bad?
It's actually infuriating that people have to even discuss this non-issue.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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