I just can't deal with religion
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15-03-2016, 07:39 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 07:11 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 05:10 PM)carol Wrote:  First, I want to wish you the best and I hope that you can find a solution for the fear that you are feeling...here is a hug. Hug I hope that you can feel better soon...


I have heard of some people who have fear problems in general- that they get panic attacks sometimes. Could it be possible that the fear that you feel is not just about religion, but a panic attack instead, or an anxiety disorder? You may want to find out more about anxiety disorders, just to see if that may make sense to you. For some people, anxiety is a medical issue.

I am sending these links because you had said:

"When I say it gives me anxiety it's no joke. I don't eat, sleep, rationalize things.. Nothing. I go into full panic, I can't breathe I tremble uncontrollably. My heart races.. I can't handle it."

I thought that if you feel so frightened that you tremble and your heart races, could it be possible that you have an anxiety disorder? If you read up on it, it may make sense to you...or not...

Here is a link to Mayo clinic about panic attacks:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-condi...n-20020825

Here is one about anxiety:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-condi...n-20024562


I read these and I have experienced this. At night when I lay down after having one of these spells my heart just gets out of control. But it is mostly triggered by religious stuff, that's what makes me wonder if I should give it up.
But then that Christian in me freaks out more if I consider it.

If it is an anxiety disorder, then the trigger could be anything- heights, spiders, religion, other fears...so if you get help and get free of anxiety then you can go on with your life and decide for yourself what you believe, instead of being scared. People are triggered by many things- ( mine was heights, and also I was sick with cancer at the time so I was scared of death) but the main issue is the anxiety, which can be helped. I know it can- I have not had a panic attack for close to 26 years now. I learned how to treat them- and got some help. I am not afraid of very much now Big Grin I am sort of crazy brave most of the time now.Tongue

To me, the trigger that caused the panic was not the issue- I just wanted to learn how to make it better, and I did. I do not know you, so only you can decide what is best for you. I may be completely wrong. But, if it was an anxiety disorder that causes you to feel that way, and not religion, wouldn't you want to find out if you can make it better? There are clinics that you could go to to find out about it...if you wanted to. You are the only person who knows how you feel, and if you told a psychiatrist about it, perhaps they can help you figure it all out-any way, it may be worth a shot.
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15-03-2016, 07:50 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 07:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I posted this in your Intro thread, I dunno if you got a chance to read it:

o sorry you're struggling. I am an ex-Christian myself. It is a struggle coming out of religion since you were brainwashed to believe a certain way. It's very hard to realign your thinking, but it can happen. It just takes time and educating yourself.

The end of times has been going on for a long time. They believed this way back in biblical times. The Bible actually has sections that are classified as apocalyptic literature because they believed the world was coming to an end very soon. Fast forward til now and some religious people still believe the world is coming to an end. After all of the prophecies and predictions by various religious folks, this obviously has yet to happen. That should tell you something right there. As far as any other prophecies, many were written in after the fact or were completely vague and were/are left open to interpretation. People will say the Bible predicts all kinds of things, which of course, it doesn't. Some people like to take passages out of their original context and twist them to fit current or past occurrences. This is a very common practice with the rapturists, which it sounds like your religious upbringing may have been a part of.

Get Bart Ehrman's The Bible: A historical and literary introduction. He's a biblical scholar and his book explains where all these ideas and stories came from. People wrote these stories. Not a god. I also recommend reading the Skeptics Annotated Bible by Steve Wells.

I did! So many books were mentioned and I'll be grabbing them this weekend! And thank you so much, I have seen similar answers but not as detailed.
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15-03-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 07:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  If you want to give us an example of a prophecy that is bothering you, we can help you work through it.

So yeah while they are vague it still freaks me out. Not so much the ones about the weather and wars but the ones about Israel really get me. Saying he will bring them back to the country from where they were scattered. (I'm shaking thinking about it) I read on cnn where they were already going back. Then the ones about signs in the heavens.. I don't know if I force myself to see things in the clouds but when I saw faces I freaked. I had to drop church for multiple reasons but one was the constant talk of it being the last hour. That this is the year.
I hate being one of those Christians but it really Gets to me.
The great falling away is one, I don't want to be part of it but that could be the little Christian in my head.
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15-03-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 07:39 PM)carol Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 07:11 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  I read these and I have experienced this. At night when I lay down after having one of these spells my heart just gets out of control. But it is mostly triggered by religious stuff, that's what makes me wonder if I should give it up.
But then that Christian in me freaks out more if I consider it.

If it is an anxiety disorder, then the trigger could be anything- heights, spiders, religion, other fears...so if you get help and get free of anxiety then you can go on with your life and decide for yourself what you believe, instead of being scared. People are triggered by many things- ( mine was heights, and also I was sick with cancer at the time so I was scared of death) but the main issue is the anxiety, which can be helped. I know it can- I have not had a panic attack for close to 26 years now. I learned how to treat them- and got some help. I am not afraid of very much now Big Grin I am sort of crazy brave most of the time now.Tongue

To me, the trigger that caused the panic was not the issue- I just wanted to learn how to make it better, and I did. I do not know you, so only you can decide what is best for you. I may be completely wrong. But, if it was an anxiety disorder that causes you to feel that way, and not religion, wouldn't you want to find out if you can make it better? There are clinics that you could go to to find out about it...if you wanted to. You are the only person who knows how you feel, and if you told a psychiatrist about it, perhaps they can help you figure it all out-any way, it may be worth a shot.

I have one I'm planning on making an appointment with. He is my brother in laws doctor and he talks to you then prescribes if need be. But thank you so much! You guys really are amazing!
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15-03-2016, 08:03 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 08:00 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 07:39 PM)carol Wrote:  If it is an anxiety disorder, then the trigger could be anything- heights, spiders, religion, other fears...so if you get help and get free of anxiety then you can go on with your life and decide for yourself what you believe, instead of being scared. People are triggered by many things- ( mine was heights, and also I was sick with cancer at the time so I was scared of death) but the main issue is the anxiety, which can be helped. I know it can- I have not had a panic attack for close to 26 years now. I learned how to treat them- and got some help. I am not afraid of very much now Big Grin I am sort of crazy brave most of the time now.Tongue

To me, the trigger that caused the panic was not the issue- I just wanted to learn how to make it better, and I did. I do not know you, so only you can decide what is best for you. I may be completely wrong. But, if it was an anxiety disorder that causes you to feel that way, and not religion, wouldn't you want to find out if you can make it better? There are clinics that you could go to to find out about it...if you wanted to. You are the only person who knows how you feel, and if you told a psychiatrist about it, perhaps they can help you figure it all out-any way, it may be worth a shot.

I have one I'm planning on making an appointment with. He is my brother in laws doctor and he talks to you then prescribes if need be. But thank you so much! You guys really are amazing!

You are welcome!
This is a really nice place, lots of good people hereBig Grin
They have given me much to think about, and have given me a lot of laughs too.
I hope that you keep us posted on how you are doing...
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15-03-2016, 08:12 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 07:56 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 07:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  If you want to give us an example of a prophecy that is bothering you, we can help you work through it.

So yeah while they are vague it still freaks me out. Not so much the ones about the weather and wars but the ones about Israel really get me. Saying he will bring them back to the country from where they were scattered. (I'm shaking thinking about it) I read on cnn where they were already going back. Then the ones about signs in the heavens.. I don't know if I force myself to see things in the clouds but when I saw faces I freaked. I had to drop church for multiple reasons but one was the constant talk of it being the last hour. That this is the year.
I hate being one of those Christians but it really Gets to me.
The great falling away is one, I don't want to be part of it but that could be the little Christian in my head.

Yes, I have heard that one before. That is an example of passage twisting. It's from Ezekiel 36. It is not talking about 1948 Israel. This passage is really talking about the Babylon exile in 538 BCE. The exile ended and the Jews came back to their land thanks to Cyrus. It has absolutely nothing to do with 1948 Israel.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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15-03-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 08:12 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 07:56 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  So yeah while they are vague it still freaks me out. Not so much the ones about the weather and wars but the ones about Israel really get me. Saying he will bring them back to the country from where they were scattered. (I'm shaking thinking about it) I read on cnn where they were already going back. Then the ones about signs in the heavens.. I don't know if I force myself to see things in the clouds but when I saw faces I freaked. I had to drop church for multiple reasons but one was the constant talk of it being the last hour. That this is the year.
I hate being one of those Christians but it really Gets to me.
The great falling away is one, I don't want to be part of it but that could be the little Christian in my head.

Yes, I have heard that one before. That is an example of passage twisting. It's from Ezekiel 36. It is not talking about 1948 Israel. This passage is really talking about the Babylon exile in 538 BCE. The exile ended and the Jews came back to their land thanks to Cyrus. It has absolutely nothing to do with 1948 Israel.

How do you know this?!? Like I'm really interested in learning as much as I can. Is it from the books? I may sound crazy but you know they don't teach this in church.
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15-03-2016, 08:32 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 08:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:12 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Yes, I have heard that one before. That is an example of passage twisting. It's from Ezekiel 36. It is not talking about 1948 Israel. This passage is really talking about the Babylon exile in 538 BCE. The exile ended and the Jews came back to their land thanks to Cyrus. It has absolutely nothing to do with 1948 Israel.

How do you know this?!? Like I'm really interested in learning as much as I can. Is it from the books? I may sound crazy but you know they don't teach this in church.

I'm an ex-Christian and I educated myself on all of the incorrect teachings I was being given by my church. I would start with the books I recommended. They also have scholarly books on each and every chapter in the Bible. The Cambridge Bible Commentaries, for instance, has books on each and every section in the bible. It's a scholarly approach to the historical aspects of what was going on during these times and where these so-called prophecies came from. I think a good place to start is with the Bart Ehrman book I recommended to you. It's a very easy read and not intimidating in the least.

I know they twist passages in church, they did in mine too--but once you know some biblical history--all of these prophecies your church is telling you about--you will start to see how they are twisting things to make them fit and how it makes much more logical sense that the so-called prophecies written by biblical authors were written about what was going on in their lives, in their time--not years, and years, and years in the future.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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15-03-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 04:52 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  My poor brain is having a hard time. I don't know if I believe or not. But the minute something looks like prophecy the fear hits. When I say it gives me anxiety it's no joke. I don't eat, sleep, rationalize things.. Nothing. I go into full panic, I can't breathe I tremble uncontrollably. My heart races.. I can't handle it. When I find hope in science and facts something biblical knocks me down. I just do not know what to do.
My old preacher had a saying about not needing religion but a relationship with Jesus. Guys I have prayed over my anxiety and it doesn't work and I'm told it's a lack of faith..
But in my current situation I don't know which way to go.

Welcome to the forum, Jewelarcher. I really hope you can get your concerns sorted out. I hate to hear about someone living their lives in such fear. I gather that you're currently a Christian. I may know a thing or two about debunking Christian prophecy that uses the Hebrew Bible (old testament) as its source. I saw that jennybee already addressed one example, but can you give me another prophecy that concerns you? Maybe along with the rest of the people on this forum, I can help alleviate some of your concerns and help you make an informed decision about religion, and not a decision based on fear.
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15-03-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  How do you know this?!? Like I'm really interested in learning as much as I can. Is it from the books? I may sound crazy but you know they don't teach this in church.

I'm an ex-Christian and I educated myself on all of the incorrect teachings I was being given by my church. I would start with the books I recommended. They also have scholarly books on each and every chapter in the Bible. The Cambridge Bible Commentaries, for instance, has books on each and every section in the bible. It's a scholarly approach to the historical aspects of what was going on during these times and where these so-called prophecies came from. I think a good place to start is with the Bart Ehrman book I recommended to you. It's a very easy read and not intimidating in the least.

I know they twist passages in church, they did in mine too--but once you know some biblical history--all of these prophecies your church is telling you about--you will start to see how they are twisting things to make them fit and how it makes much more logical sense that the so-called prophecies written by biblical authors were written about what was going on in their lives, in their time--not years, and years, and years in the future.

See I tried reading prophecy to make sense of it myself.. Didn't work. But one part actually went as far to mention a similar/ same passage and said "but this is for many years from now" it struck a nerve but the different translations, I read are being used to twist like you mentioned. It makes it really hard to study.
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