I just can't deal with religion
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15-03-2016, 09:03 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 08:50 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:32 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm an ex-Christian and I educated myself on all of the incorrect teachings I was being given by my church. I would start with the books I recommended. They also have scholarly books on each and every chapter in the Bible. The Cambridge Bible Commentaries, for instance, has books on each and every section in the bible. It's a scholarly approach to the historical aspects of what was going on during these times and where these so-called prophecies came from. I think a good place to start is with the Bart Ehrman book I recommended to you. It's a very easy read and not intimidating in the least.

I know they twist passages in church, they did in mine too--but once you know some biblical history--all of these prophecies your church is telling you about--you will start to see how they are twisting things to make them fit and how it makes much more logical sense that the so-called prophecies written by biblical authors were written about what was going on in their lives, in their time--not years, and years, and years in the future.

See I tried reading prophecy to make sense of it myself.. Didn't work. But one part actually went as far to mention a similar/ same passage and said "but this is for many years from now" it struck a nerve but the different translations, I read are being used to twist like you mentioned. It makes it really hard to study.

Do you have the passage?

Yes, don't try and make sense of it yourself. There's no way you could possibly. You are reading something written in a different time, a different place, a different culture, and based on a history you may not be familiar with. That's why it's important to read some scholarly books.
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15-03-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 09:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:50 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  See I tried reading prophecy to make sense of it myself.. Didn't work. But one part actually went as far to mention a similar/ same passage and said "but this is for many years from now" it struck a nerve but the different translations, I read are being used to twist like you mentioned. It makes it really hard to study.

Do you have the passage?

Yes, don't try and make sense of it yourself. There's no way you could possibly. You are reading something written in a different time, a different place, a different culture, and based on a history you may not be familiar with. That's why it's important to read some scholarly books.

ok so it took me a minute to find it, but its not in relation to what i thought. but it is Ezekiel 12:21-28.
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15-03-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 08:37 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 04:52 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  My poor brain is having a hard time. I don't know if I believe or not. But the minute something looks like prophecy the fear hits. When I say it gives me anxiety it's no joke. I don't eat, sleep, rationalize things.. Nothing. I go into full panic, I can't breathe I tremble uncontrollably. My heart races.. I can't handle it. When I find hope in science and facts something biblical knocks me down. I just do not know what to do.
My old preacher had a saying about not needing religion but a relationship with Jesus. Guys I have prayed over my anxiety and it doesn't work and I'm told it's a lack of faith..
But in my current situation I don't know which way to go.

Welcome to the forum, Jewelarcher. I really hope you can get your concerns sorted out. I hate to hear about someone living their lives in such fear. I gather that you're currently a Christian. I may know a thing or two about debunking Christian prophecy that uses the Hebrew Bible (old testament) as its source. I saw that jennybee already addressed one example, but can you give me another prophecy that concerns you? Maybe along with the rest of the people on this forum, I can help alleviate some of your concerns and help you make an informed decision about religion, and not a decision based on fear.

its really strange but whenever someone asks for a prophecy that freaks me out i have a hard time even remembering. the ones that strike me are the ones the current church are crying about.
signs in the heavens- people are posting pictures of clouds that make shapes of people riding horses (i cant tell if its photo shopped and im paralyzed by fear too much to check.) theres also the pictures of angels in the clouds that were posted like a month or so ago.. and one of a cross in the sky (after thinking about it i decided it was where two planes crossed but again too scared to look)
-the ones about isreal at war.. that strikes a serious nerve even though i know its been going on a while. what gets me is how people want to bring peace to them. that would normally be a good thing but to someone scared of the second coming that just means *anti christ, peace treaty, seven years of torture*
-the one about the jews being gathered back, as i mentioned in a previous comment i read on cnn where they are all going back because of isis. some christians say that isis is a prophecy being fulfilled but i wont look it up either.
there are more im sure but these are just a few that i can think of right now.
thank you!
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15-03-2016, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 09:38 PM by jennybee.)
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 09:17 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Do you have the passage?

Yes, don't try and make sense of it yourself. There's no way you could possibly. You are reading something written in a different time, a different place, a different culture, and based on a history you may not be familiar with. That's why it's important to read some scholarly books.

ok so it took me a minute to find it, but its not in relation to what i thought. but it is Ezekiel 12:21-28.

This is talking about the Babylonian exile and God's judgment (destruction of the temple/God's departure from temple). It's not talking about anything in our time.
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15-03-2016, 09:58 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:37 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, Jewelarcher. I really hope you can get your concerns sorted out. I hate to hear about someone living their lives in such fear. I gather that you're currently a Christian. I may know a thing or two about debunking Christian prophecy that uses the Hebrew Bible (old testament) as its source. I saw that jennybee already addressed one example, but can you give me another prophecy that concerns you? Maybe along with the rest of the people on this forum, I can help alleviate some of your concerns and help you make an informed decision about religion, and not a decision based on fear.

its really strange but whenever someone asks for a prophecy that freaks me out i have a hard time even remembering. the ones that strike me are the ones the current church are crying about.

signs in the heavens- people are posting pictures of clouds that make shapes of people riding horses (i cant tell if its photo shopped and im paralyzed by fear too much to check.) theres also the pictures of angels in the clouds that were posted like a month or so ago.. and one of a cross in the sky (after thinking about it i decided it was where two planes crossed but again too scared to look)

I saw a picture a few months ago depicting Jesus and an angel standing over a crash victim. Within an hour or two, the users on this forum dug out the original, unedited photo. Someone also posted a version of the photo with the spaghetti monster that they made themselves.

I know these photos may seem frightening, but ask yourself, if these are real, why didn't CNN report on it? Why didn’t anyone with any technological know-how vouch that the pictures aren’t photo shopped?

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...shop-Jesus

(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  -the ones about isreal at war.. that strikes a serious nerve even though i know its been going on a while. what gets me is how people want to bring peace to them. that would normally be a good thing but to someone scared of the second coming that just means *anti christ, peace treaty, seven years of torture*

There hasn’t been a first coming of the messiah. Jesus failed to fulfill any of the messianic prophecies, and this is why the Jews reject him. How can anything in the NT have any validity at all if they can’t even prove that Jesus was the messiah in the first place? Isn’t that the most important thing?

Okay, so he was a Jew, but aside from that, not a single messianic prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus. Nothing. We can discuss this further if you like.

(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  -the one about the jews being gathered back, as i mentioned in a previous comment i read on cnn where they are all going back because of isis. some christians say that isis is a prophecy being fulfilled but i wont look it up either.
there are more im sure but these are just a few that i can think of right now.
thank you!

We are not going back to Israel because of Isis. In fact, Isis is a stumbling block in many people’s desire to make the move there -myself included.

Many Jews are going back to Israel because we view it as our homeland, and yes, many of us do believe there is prophecy to tie the relocation of the Jews in with the messianic era. But the Jewish scripture that Christianity bases it's messianic prediction on speaks of a wonderful, peaceful time where everyone will live in harmony. There will be amazing discoveries, prosperity and advancement of humanity. Though a war may occur (and is likely given the current climate in the middle east), it is not essential to ushering in the messianic era.

But you needn’t fear the messianic era as described in the old testament. If it's to happen, then it's not a bad thing, and everyone will enjoy the peace and prosperity that are promised in the Hebrew scriptures. Only good things happen. The Christians mistranslated our book, took scripture out of context, and simply changed the meaning of words to make up this business about hell, damnation, seven-years of torture and every other horrible thing they profess. None of it is based on the Jewish prophecy that they claim it is, and yes, all of this can be demonstrated by carefully reading the bible.
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15-03-2016, 10:05 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
Quote:-the one about the jews being gathered back, as i mentioned in a previous comment i read on cnn where they are all going back because of isis. some christians say that isis is a prophecy being fulfilled but i wont look it up either.
there are more im sure but these are just a few that i can think of right now.
thank you!

I am so sorry you're having so much anxiety!
I can say with absolute certainty that the Jews aren't "all going back." I'm a cultural Jew, and am active in some of the local synagogue's musical activities. Nobody at that synagogue is going back to Israel. None of their family members are going back to Israel. None of my Jewish family members are going back to Israel. Not a single Jew I know - and I know tons of 'em - is going back to Israel. I know some Jews who have gone to Israel on vacation, but they don't stay there.
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15-03-2016, 10:10 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 06:05 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  I don’t know that I can explain why prophecy. For some reason that’s my trigger. I don’t know if its because its written in a book claiming to know the future.. and it looks like its coming true.. I really don’t know. But if a prophecy LOOKS like its happening its over. At night I force myself to stay awake at the thought of it. Too scared to sleep. To scared, I cant function as a normal person anymore. And I do not know why.. but the answers athiests provide.. bring me comfort… until the next bad thing happens..

I think I went through something similar. When I was letting go of god I walked around in a fog for a while. The wiring is being reworked and that can be very scary. The thing I tried to keep in mind is that the prophecies made weren't actually prophetic at all. The connections were being made by people. You may be doing the same thing. You may be seeing causality when there is none. If that is what was engrained in you for a long time, it takes time for the crap to filter out. Good luck.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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15-03-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 09:58 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  its really strange but whenever someone asks for a prophecy that freaks me out i have a hard time even remembering. the ones that strike me are the ones the current church are crying about.

signs in the heavens- people are posting pictures of clouds that make shapes of people riding horses (i cant tell if its photo shopped and im paralyzed by fear too much to check.) theres also the pictures of angels in the clouds that were posted like a month or so ago.. and one of a cross in the sky (after thinking about it i decided it was where two planes crossed but again too scared to look)

I saw a picture a few months ago depicting Jesus and an angel standing over a crash victim. Within an hour or two, the users on this forum dug out the original, unedited photo. Someone also posted a version of the photo with the spaghetti monster that they made themselves.

I know these photos may seem frightening, but ask yourself, if these are real, why didn't CNN report on it? Why didn’t anyone with any technological know-how vouch that the pictures aren’t photo shopped?

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...shop-Jesus

(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  -the ones about isreal at war.. that strikes a serious nerve even though i know its been going on a while. what gets me is how people want to bring peace to them. that would normally be a good thing but to someone scared of the second coming that just means *anti christ, peace treaty, seven years of torture*

There hasn’t been a first coming of the messiah. Jesus failed to fulfill any of the messianic prophecies, and this is why the Jews reject him. How can anything in the NT have any validity at all if they can’t even prove that Jesus was the messiah in the first place? Isn’t that the most important thing?

Okay, so he was a Jew, but aside from that, not a single messianic prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus. Nothing. We can discuss this further if you like.

(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  -the one about the jews being gathered back, as i mentioned in a previous comment i read on cnn where they are all going back because of isis. some christians say that isis is a prophecy being fulfilled but i wont look it up either.
there are more im sure but these are just a few that i can think of right now.
thank you!

We are not going back to Israel because of Isis. In fact, Isis is a stumbling block in many people’s desire to make the move there -myself included.

Many Jews are going back to Israel because we view it as our homeland, and yes, many of us do believe there is prophecy to tie the relocation of the Jews in with the messianic era. But the Jewish scripture that Christianity bases it's messianic prediction on speaks of a wonderful, peaceful time where everyone will live in harmony. There will be amazing discoveries, prosperity and advancement of humanity. Though a war may occur (and is likely given the current climate in the middle east), it is not essential to ushering in the messianic era.

But you needn’t fear the messianic era as described in the old testament. If it's to happen, then it's not a bad thing, and everyone will enjoy the peace and prosperity that are promised in the Hebrew scriptures. Only good things happen. The Christians mistranslated our book, took scripture out of context, and simply changed the meaning of words to make up this business about hell, damnation, seven-years of torture and every other horrible thing they profess. None of it is based on the Jewish prophecy that they claim it is, and yes, all of this can be demonstrated by carefully reading the bible.

no i totally support the homeland deal! but as you can see christianity has ruined me a bit. i dont know why but these comments have me shaking again. but i really do appreciate your comments. please anything you have to say! i would love to know your take on things!
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15-03-2016, 10:18 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:05 PM)jariel Wrote:  
Quote:-the one about the jews being gathered back, as i mentioned in a previous comment i read on cnn where they are all going back because of isis. some christians say that isis is a prophecy being fulfilled but i wont look it up either.
there are more im sure but these are just a few that i can think of right now.
thank you!

I am so sorry you're having so much anxiety!
I can say with absolute certainty that the Jews aren't "all going back." I'm a cultural Jew, and am active in some of the local synagogue's musical activities. Nobody at that synagogue is going back to Israel. None of their family members are going back to Israel. None of my Jewish family members are going back to Israel. Not a single Jew I know - and I know tons of 'em - is going back to Israel. I know some Jews who have gone to Israel on vacation, but they don't stay there.

thank you! really. my bible puts me in a terrible position. even talking about it gets me shaking. you know in church they dont preach about the jewish religion.. even though.. isnt that where it started? i guess thats the thing about religion somtimes.. even though my bible mentions the jews.. ive never thought to ask one myself.but then again i dont actually know any. but i would love to hear anything you have to say.
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15-03-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:18 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:05 PM)jariel Wrote:  I am so sorry you're having so much anxiety!
I can say with absolute certainty that the Jews aren't "all going back." I'm a cultural Jew, and am active in some of the local synagogue's musical activities. Nobody at that synagogue is going back to Israel. None of their family members are going back to Israel. None of my Jewish family members are going back to Israel. Not a single Jew I know - and I know tons of 'em - is going back to Israel. I know some Jews who have gone to Israel on vacation, but they don't stay there.

thank you! really. my bible puts me in a terrible position. even talking about it gets me shaking. you know in church they dont preach about the jewish religion.. even though.. isnt that where it started? i guess thats the thing about religion somtimes.. even though my bible mentions the jews.. ive never thought to ask one myself.but then again i dont actually know any. but i would love to hear anything you have to say.

Now you know two. Wink Feel free to ask any questions.
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