I just can't deal with religion
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15-03-2016, 10:22 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 09:58 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  its really strange but whenever someone asks for a prophecy that freaks me out i have a hard time even remembering. the ones that strike me are the ones the current church are crying about.

signs in the heavens- people are posting pictures of clouds that make shapes of people riding horses (i cant tell if its photo shopped and im paralyzed by fear too much to check.) theres also the pictures of angels in the clouds that were posted like a month or so ago.. and one of a cross in the sky (after thinking about it i decided it was where two planes crossed but again too scared to look)

I saw a picture a few months ago depicting Jesus and an angel standing over a crash victim. Within an hour or two, the users on this forum dug out the original, unedited photo. Someone also posted a version of the photo with the spaghetti monster that they made themselves.

I know these photos may seem frightening, but ask yourself, if these are real, why didn't CNN report on it? Why didn’t anyone with any technological know-how vouch that the pictures aren’t photo shopped?

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...shop-Jesus

(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  -the ones about isreal at war.. that strikes a serious nerve even though i know its been going on a while. what gets me is how people want to bring peace to them. that would normally be a good thing but to someone scared of the second coming that just means *anti christ, peace treaty, seven years of torture*

There hasn’t been a first coming of the messiah. Jesus failed to fulfill any of the messianic prophecies, and this is why the Jews reject him. How can anything in the NT have any validity at all if they can’t even prove that Jesus was the messiah in the first place? Isn’t that the most important thing?

Okay, so he was a Jew, but aside from that, not a single messianic prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus. Nothing. We can discuss this further if you like.

(15-03-2016 09:22 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  -the one about the jews being gathered back, as i mentioned in a previous comment i read on cnn where they are all going back because of isis. some christians say that isis is a prophecy being fulfilled but i wont look it up either.
there are more im sure but these are just a few that i can think of right now.
thank you!

We are not going back to Israel because of Isis. In fact, Isis is a stumbling block in many people’s desire to make the move there -myself included.

Many Jews are going back to Israel because we view it as our homeland, and yes, many of us do believe there is prophecy to tie the relocation of the Jews in with the messianic era. But the Jewish scripture that Christianity bases it's messianic prediction on speaks of a wonderful, peaceful time where everyone will live in harmony. There will be amazing discoveries, prosperity and advancement of humanity. Though a war may occur (and is likely given the current climate in the middle east), it is not essential to ushering in the messianic era.

But you needn’t fear the messianic era as described in the old testament. If it's to happen, then it's not a bad thing, and everyone will enjoy the peace and prosperity that are promised in the Hebrew scriptures. Only good things happen. The Christians mistranslated our book, took scripture out of context, and simply changed the meaning of words to make up this business about hell, damnation, seven-years of torture and every other horrible thing they profess. None of it is based on the Jewish prophecy that they claim it is, and yes, all of this can be demonstrated by carefully reading the bible.

i guess thats also the difference in the beliefs. like we believe jesus was it, others do not. but my thing is.. wouldnt it be his 3rd coming or 4th?? lol from our view anyway. but that is really something i got bothered with. the bible says jesus was it in all ways. but as i got to reading up on the Jewish side.. he didnt fit any of the characterists. then that makes me go why? and of course the bible has a freaking answer to that too.. its to save everyone.. or only the ones who believe. or my favorite thing the bible says is "these things must come to pass"
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15-03-2016, 10:25 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
Many Jews are going back to Israel because we view it as our homeland, and yes, many of us do believe there is prophecy to tie the relocation of the Jews in with the messianic era. But the Jewish scripture that Christianity bases it's messianic prediction on speaks of a wonderful, peaceful time where everyone will live in harmony. There will be amazing discoveries, prosperity and advancement of humanity. Though a war may occur (and is likely given the current climate in the middle east), it is not essential to ushering in the messianic era.

But you needn’t fear the messianic era as described in the old testament. If it's to happen, then it's not a bad thing, and everyone will enjoy the peace and prosperity that are promised in the Hebrew scriptures. [b]Only good things happen.
The Christians mistranslated our book, took scripture out of context, and simply changed the meaning of words to make up this business about hell, damnation, seven-years of torture and every other horrible thing they profess. None of it is based on the Jewish prophecy that they claim it is, and yes, all of this can be demonstrated by carefully reading the bible.[/b]

all of this makes my heart very happy. im sorry to reply in so many different posts but different things catch at different times. because i got shaken at whatever i skipped a lot. i want to believe in a time of happiness for everyone. not a god that punishes people because they dont believe. or does that still happen? again i dont really know a lot outside of my own beliefs and even looking at it now.. i dont think i know as much as i think. but you guys are so wonderful, this site and the people are helping me so much i cant wait to have something to post that isnt anxiety related lol
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15-03-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 09:30 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:17 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  ok so it took me a minute to find it, but its not in relation to what i thought. but it is Ezekiel 12:21-28.

This is talking about the Babylonian exile and God's judgment (destruction of the temple/God's departure from temple). It's not talking about anything in our time.

thank you so much. im glad i found this place. if i were to try and just google it, it wouldnt be pretty for me and would likely result in calling out of work tomorrow.
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15-03-2016, 10:36 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:25 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  Many Jews are going back to Israel because we view it as our homeland, and yes, many of us do believe there is prophecy to tie the relocation of the Jews in with the messianic era. But the Jewish scripture that Christianity bases it's messianic prediction on speaks of a wonderful, peaceful time where everyone will live in harmony. There will be amazing discoveries, prosperity and advancement of humanity. Though a war may occur (and is likely given the current climate in the middle east), it is not essential to ushering in the messianic era.

But you needn’t fear the messianic era as described in the old testament. If it's to happen, then it's not a bad thing, and everyone will enjoy the peace and prosperity that are promised in the Hebrew scriptures. [b]Only good things happen.
The Christians mistranslated our book, took scripture out of context, and simply changed the meaning of words to make up this business about hell, damnation, seven-years of torture and every other horrible thing they profess. None of it is based on the Jewish prophecy that they claim it is, and yes, all of this can be demonstrated by carefully reading the bible.[/b]

all of this makes my heart very happy. im sorry to reply in so many different posts but different things catch at different times. because i got shaken at whatever i skipped a lot. i want to believe in a time of happiness for everyone. not a god that punishes people because they dont believe. or does that still happen? again i dont really know a lot outside of my own beliefs and even looking at it now.. i dont think i know as much as i think. but you guys are so wonderful, this site and the people are helping me so much i cant wait to have something to post that isnt anxiety related lol

According to the Hebrew bible, a belief in G-d (Jewish way of typing God) is not essential to living a happy life. No punishment is issued for failing to believe or for failing to understand. There is also no concept of eternal punishment for any sin at all. People are either punished for their misdeeds in this word (prison, financial levy, etc...) or they are punished in the "afterlife" but it's for a short period of time. -It's not even close to being eternal, and it's not lakes of fire, devils and torture.

There's a really good reason that for 2,000 years, the Christians have been unsuccessful at converting the Jews when they otherwise reached such great success with other groups of people. The Jews wrote the old testament, and we can read it in it's original language. We see it very plainly for the nonsense that it is.
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15-03-2016, 10:43 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:36 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:25 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  Many Jews are going back to Israel because we view it as our homeland, and yes, many of us do believe there is prophecy to tie the relocation of the Jews in with the messianic era. But the Jewish scripture that Christianity bases it's messianic prediction on speaks of a wonderful, peaceful time where everyone will live in harmony. There will be amazing discoveries, prosperity and advancement of humanity. Though a war may occur (and is likely given the current climate in the middle east), it is not essential to ushering in the messianic era.

But you needn’t fear the messianic era as described in the old testament. If it's to happen, then it's not a bad thing, and everyone will enjoy the peace and prosperity that are promised in the Hebrew scriptures. [b]Only good things happen.
The Christians mistranslated our book, took scripture out of context, and simply changed the meaning of words to make up this business about hell, damnation, seven-years of torture and every other horrible thing they profess. None of it is based on the Jewish prophecy that they claim it is, and yes, all of this can be demonstrated by carefully reading the bible.[/b]

all of this makes my heart very happy. im sorry to reply in so many different posts but different things catch at different times. because i got shaken at whatever i skipped a lot. i want to believe in a time of happiness for everyone. not a god that punishes people because they dont believe. or does that still happen? again i dont really know a lot outside of my own beliefs and even looking at it now.. i dont think i know as much as i think. but you guys are so wonderful, this site and the people are helping me so much i cant wait to have something to post that isnt anxiety related lol

According to the Hebrew bible, a belief in G-d (Jewish way of typing God) is not essential to living a happy life. No punishment is issued for failing to believe or for failing to understand. There is also no concept of eternal punishment for any sin at all. People are either punished for their misdeeds in this word (prison, financial levy, etc...) or they are punished in the "afterlife" but it's for a short period of time. -It's not even close to being eternal, and it's not lakes of fire, devils and torture.

There's a really good reason that for 2,000 years, the Christians have been unsuccessful at converting the Jews when they otherwise reached such great success with other groups of people. The Jews wrote the old testament, and we can read it in it's original language. We see it very plainly for the nonsense that it is.

why then did the Christians end up so angry? it really is a terrible thing to tell people hey you dont believe and so your burning for eternity.
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15-03-2016, 10:51 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:43 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:36 PM)Aliza Wrote:  According to the Hebrew bible, a belief in G-d (Jewish way of typing God) is not essential to living a happy life. No punishment is issued for failing to believe or for failing to understand. There is also no concept of eternal punishment for any sin at all. People are either punished for their misdeeds in this word (prison, financial levy, etc...) or they are punished in the "afterlife" but it's for a short period of time. -It's not even close to being eternal, and it's not lakes of fire, devils and torture.

There's a really good reason that for 2,000 years, the Christians have been unsuccessful at converting the Jews when they otherwise reached such great success with other groups of people. The Jews wrote the old testament, and we can read it in it's original language. We see it very plainly for the nonsense that it is.

why then did the Christians end up so angry? it really is a terrible thing to tell people hey you dont believe and so your burning for eternity.

Sadly, it's because they want to control you. That's really what it boils down to.

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll gather up a list of existing threads in the Atheism/Theism section which might be a good starting place for you to get your feet wet with this topic.

If you get a jump start ahead of me and take a browse through the forum yourself, keep in mind that the vast majority of posters are atheist, and presenting material from that perspective.
Mark Fulton and BuckyBall are secular experts who provide excellent material.
I (Aliza) represent the Jewish voice.
Q Continuum and Tomasia represent the christian voice
Alla speaks on behalf of Mormons
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15-03-2016, 10:58 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:51 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:43 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  why then did the Christians end up so angry? it really is a terrible thing to tell people hey you dont believe and so your burning for eternity.

Sadly, it's because they want to control you. That's really what it boils down to.

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll gather up a list of existing threads in the Atheism/Theism section which might be a good starting place for you to get your feet wet with this topic.

If you get a jump start ahead of me and take a browse through the forum yourself, keep in mind that the vast majority of posters are atheist, and presenting material from that perspective.
Mark Fulton and BuckyBall are secular experts who provide excellent material.
I (Aliza) represent the Jewish voice.
Q Continuum and Tomasia represent the christian voice
Alla speaks on behalf of Morons


Fixed. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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15-03-2016, 11:22 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:51 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:43 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  why then did the Christians end up so angry? it really is a terrible thing to tell people hey you dont believe and so your burning for eternity.

Sadly, it's because they want to control you. That's really what it boils down to.

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll gather up a list of existing threads in the Atheism/Theism section which might be a good starting place for you to get your feet wet with this topic.

If you get a jump start ahead of me and take a browse through the forum yourself, keep in mind that the vast majority of posters are atheist, and presenting material from that perspective.
Mark Fulton and BuckyBall are secular experts who provide excellent material.
I (Aliza) represent the Jewish voice.
Q Continuum and Tomasia represent the christian voice
Alla speaks on behalf of Mormons

the controlling did good until i made friends that werent christians. that allowed me to ask questions. but its gotten so bad like i said, i can barely function.
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15-03-2016, 11:28 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 10:43 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  why then did the Christians end up so angry? it really is a terrible thing to tell people hey you dont believe and so your burning for eternity.

Christianity has always been about controllers controlling those controlled in their desperation. One must imagine how the poor existed within the Roman empire. The empire from where xianity developed.

The division between the haves and the have nots was vast and terrible. It is no surprise that people would hold to the idea that the weak would be better off in the afterlife. Romans had a contempt for death. So the afterlife offered much to those living in the subura in any Roman province. So naturally it began with the poor and developed from that class.

As most poor were totally uneducated they were easily controlled by those better off and in positions of power. Religion was free within Roman law. So anyone could practice xianity. Hence it grew undisturbed for many years. The promise of the afterlife drew them in. Regardless of what the texts said. People were unable to read it.

Things changed once Constantine made xianity the one religion supported by the government. Priscillian was executed for heresy due to ideas conflicting with others, more powerful than he, having their own interpretation of the confused text. Others were soon to follow and divisions within the religion only grew more and more.

So, xians turned upon both themselves and non believers, driven as they were by the immoral teachings within the various texts. Constantine became so angered with them he ordered a meeting. This became known as the Council of Nicaea.

The Council of Nicaea was to say the least, a complete disaster. Nobody could agree as to what was meant within the text. Was god the father? Was god the son, the spirit, all three???

Nobody knew and so the various tribes went their own ways. Many thousands of xians were killed by other xians as a result.

These tribes, to give them a title, were affected by the beliefs of the emperors who were to follow. Constantius in particular was very demanding.

The xians also turned upon the pagans and murder of pagans became widespread. Thousands upon thousands were slaughtered.

The text itself, both before and after that first council was immoral. So it is no small wonder why xians began to hate. In more peaceful times, the pagans did not focus on killing other Roman citizenry who perhaps favoured Bacchus rather than Jupiter. In fact Rome embraced the gods of other lands. Armies often offered rites and sacrifices to the gods of their enemies.

The hatred that xianity stood for showed itself once in power and has never stopped.

Read the bible and you will see for yourself.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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15-03-2016, 11:36 PM
RE: I just can't deal with religion
(15-03-2016 11:28 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:43 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  why then did the Christians end up so angry? it really is a terrible thing to tell people hey you dont believe and so your burning for eternity.

Christianity has always been about controllers controlling those controlled in their desperation. One must imagine how the poor existed within the Roman empire. The empire from where xianity developed.

The division between the haves and the have nots was vast and terrible. It is no surprise that people would hold to the idea that the weak would be better off in the afterlife. Romans had a contempt for death. So the afterlife offered much to those living in the subura in any Roman province. So naturally it began with the poor and developed from that class.

As most poor were totally uneducated they were easily controlled by those better off and in positions of power. Religion was free within Roman law. So anyone could practice xianity. Hence it grew undisturbed for many years. The promise of the afterlife drew them in. Regardless of what the texts said. People were unable to read it.

Things changed once Constantine made xianity the one religion supported by the government. Priscillian was executed for heresy due to ideas conflicting with others, more powerful than he, having their own interpretation of the confused text. Others were soon to follow and divisions within the religion only grew more and more.

So, xians turned upon both themselves and non believers, driven as they were by the immoral teachings within the various texts. Constantine became so angered with them he ordered a meeting. This became known as the Council of Nicaea.

The Council of Nicaea was to say the least, a complete disaster. Nobody could agree as to what was meant within the text. Was god the father? Was god the son, the spirit, all three???

Nobody knew and so the various tribes went their own ways. Many thousands of xians were killed by other xians as a result.

These tribes, to give them a title, were affected by the beliefs of the emperors who were to follow. Constantius in particular was very demanding.

The xians also turned upon the pagans and murder of pagans became widespread. Thousands upon thousands were slaughtered.

The text itself, both before and after that first council was immoral. So it is no small wonder why xians began to hate. In more peaceful times, the pagans did not focus on killing other Roman citizenry who perhaps favoured Bacchus rather than Jupiter. In fact Rome embraced the gods of other lands. Armies often offered rites and sacrifices to the gods of their enemies.

The hatred that xianity stood for showed itself once in power and has never stopped.

Read the bible and you will see for yourself.

well this was a new twist for me, thank you.
i have read parts of the bible.. not the parts i should i guess. the only OT i read were the normal stories like creation, noah, moses, david. of course in church we never really got into the real crazy "make you question things" stuff. and in the NT i tried to focus on the love of God and Jesus. i never really knew how bad things really were.. but people that preach the love of God sure are lacking in it.
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