I just can't understand religion in America
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23-03-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 08:15 AM)War Horse Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 08:01 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Pinellas?

Citrus Sadcryface

Ah, Pinellas here. Facepalm

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23-03-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 06:59 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  The hellfire and brimstone described earlier in the south is one thing, but the modern Christian in America follows one of many these guys who have thousands of followers
[Image: olsteen-auditorium-screen-slide.jpg]

Heard a news report that someone stole the weekend offering at Joel Osteen, it was $600,000.

Wow, just wow.
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23-03-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 10:45 AM)Magoo Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 06:59 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  The hellfire and brimstone described earlier in the south is one thing, but the modern Christian in America follows one of many these guys who have thousands of followers
[Image: olsteen-auditorium-screen-slide.jpg]

Heard a news report that someone stole the weekend offering at Joel Osteen, it was $600,000.

Wow, just wow.

Being an citizen of the US is pretty nice overall but when it comes to religion I'm embarrassed that we atheists, agnostics and skeptics have to be inundated with fundamental religious crap. It's really gotten worse. I actually think the 1950's weren't as bad.

There are many, many atheist forums on the internet these days, mostly inhabited by American anti-theists of one sort and another. We have to go somewhere for an outlet otherwise we'd all be crazy by now and in mental hospitals. Hobo

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23-03-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 01:13 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 10:45 AM)Magoo Wrote:  Wow, just wow.

Being an citizen of the US is pretty nice overall but when it comes to religion I'm embarrassed that we atheists, agnostics and skeptics have to be inundated with fundamental religious crap. It's really gotten worse. I actually think the 1950's weren't as bad.

There are many, many atheist forums on the internet these days, mostly inhabited by American anti-theists of one sort and another. We have to go somewhere for an outlet otherwise we'd all be crazy by now and in mental hospitals. Hobo

Most countries are moving forward but the US and Russia are going backwards.
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23-03-2014, 01:24 PM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2014 01:32 PM by Anjele.)
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 01:21 PM)Magoo Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 01:13 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Being an citizen of the US is pretty nice overall but when it comes to religion I'm embarrassed that we atheists, agnostics and skeptics have to be inundated with fundamental religious crap. It's really gotten worse. I actually think the 1950's weren't as bad.

There are many, many atheist forums on the internet these days, mostly inhabited by American anti-theists of one sort and another. We have to go somewhere for an outlet otherwise we'd all be crazy by now and in mental hospitals. Hobo

Most countries are moving forward but the US and Russia are going backwards.

Actually America is standing still when it comes to religion. Any attempt to release its stranglehold is scary to the religionuts so they dig in to prevent any move away from their safe little world view.

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23-03-2014, 01:31 PM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(22-03-2014 06:17 PM)Magoo Wrote:  The threads in this forum section really blow my mind. I'm from Ireland, and despite 85% of Irish people being catholic, it is nothing compared to the things I read here.

For example, who actually is a creationist is the 21st fucking century? If you said you were a creationist in Ireland you would be laughed at. Literally no one is a creationist here. Then I come on here and I see some people talking about how they met some creationist and had an argument with them. Okay, most people in America are not actually creationists, but to think that it is even a topic to be discussed baffles me.

Or people having to "come out" about their atheism. I mean, what? Why is this even an issue?

Or even small things like having a debate with a Christian about religion. I have never even heard a debate about religion. I look at the front of the newspaper each day and I see nothing about religion. The most I have ever heard about religion on the radio was when the new pope was chosen, and that was about it.

My school is a fairly religious school, but there are no issues at all. If you are an atheist, nobody gives a shit. Most schools have religion exams, but they are about knowledge of religions. My school doesn't even examine religion. I do have religion class, but it is only used for topics like alcohol, proper contraception, trips out of school to help homeless, etc. We do have mass once or twice a year for Ash Wednesday. However in the morning prayer group for lent nobody turned up. If we never had any religious things going on, nobody would complain, we are all just happy to miss a few classes for it. Even my religion teacher who studied theology in college, once said "some of you might be atheists and think I'm full of crap and that's fine".

So when I come on here and see people who have family members who don't like them because they are atheists, or complaining about some dumbass fundamentalist, I just can't understand it. I am of course assuming all of these cases are people in America. I wonder if it just seems worse than it is because all people who are oppressed by religion flock onto the forum.

Is it really as bad as it seems?

There is a resurgence in interest in God in the academy in America. This is especially evident in philosophy departments. Many up and coming philosophers in the academy are more outspoken about their faith than those in previous generations.

I rejoice in this. I believe God is raising up brilliant young men and women who will challenge the notions and beliefs of previous generations that science and religion must be against one another. More and more Christians are seeing the necessity in being culturally relevant and more and more professors in the academy are being challenged by their young students who are able to give a reasonable response to the hard questions leveled at them about their faith.

It is wonderful to some and horrible to others.
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23-03-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 01:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 06:17 PM)Magoo Wrote:  The threads in this forum section really blow my mind. I'm from Ireland, and despite 85% of Irish people being catholic, it is nothing compared to the things I read here.

For example, who actually is a creationist is the 21st fucking century? If you said you were a creationist in Ireland you would be laughed at. Literally no one is a creationist here. Then I come on here and I see some people talking about how they met some creationist and had an argument with them. Okay, most people in America are not actually creationists, but to think that it is even a topic to be discussed baffles me.

Or people having to "come out" about their atheism. I mean, what? Why is this even an issue?

Or even small things like having a debate with a Christian about religion. I have never even heard a debate about religion. I look at the front of the newspaper each day and I see nothing about religion. The most I have ever heard about religion on the radio was when the new pope was chosen, and that was about it.

My school is a fairly religious school, but there are no issues at all. If you are an atheist, nobody gives a shit. Most schools have religion exams, but they are about knowledge of religions. My school doesn't even examine religion. I do have religion class, but it is only used for topics like alcohol, proper contraception, trips out of school to help homeless, etc. We do have mass once or twice a year for Ash Wednesday. However in the morning prayer group for lent nobody turned up. If we never had any religious things going on, nobody would complain, we are all just happy to miss a few classes for it. Even my religion teacher who studied theology in college, once said "some of you might be atheists and think I'm full of crap and that's fine".

So when I come on here and see people who have family members who don't like them because they are atheists, or complaining about some dumbass fundamentalist, I just can't understand it. I am of course assuming all of these cases are people in America. I wonder if it just seems worse than it is because all people who are oppressed by religion flock onto the forum.

Is it really as bad as it seems?

There is a resurgence in interest in God in the academy in America. This is especially evident in philosophy departments. Many up and coming philosophers in the academy are more outspoken about their faith than those in previous generations.

I rejoice in this. I believe God is raising up brilliant young men and women who will challenge the notions and beliefs of previous generations that science and religion must be against one another. More and more Christians are seeing the necessity in being culturally relevant and more and more professors in the academy are being challenged by their young students who are able to give a reasonable response to the hard questions leveled at them about their faith.

It is wonderful to some and horrible to others.

Challenging the notions of previous generations is something that the Christian Bible is quite vehemonently against.

Truth seeker.
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23-03-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 01:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 06:17 PM)Magoo Wrote:  The threads in this forum section really blow my mind. I'm from Ireland, and despite 85% of Irish people being catholic, it is nothing compared to the things I read here.

For example, who actually is a creationist is the 21st fucking century? If you said you were a creationist in Ireland you would be laughed at. Literally no one is a creationist here. Then I come on here and I see some people talking about how they met some creationist and had an argument with them. Okay, most people in America are not actually creationists, but to think that it is even a topic to be discussed baffles me.

Or people having to "come out" about their atheism. I mean, what? Why is this even an issue?

Or even small things like having a debate with a Christian about religion. I have never even heard a debate about religion. I look at the front of the newspaper each day and I see nothing about religion. The most I have ever heard about religion on the radio was when the new pope was chosen, and that was about it.

My school is a fairly religious school, but there are no issues at all. If you are an atheist, nobody gives a shit. Most schools have religion exams, but they are about knowledge of religions. My school doesn't even examine religion. I do have religion class, but it is only used for topics like alcohol, proper contraception, trips out of school to help homeless, etc. We do have mass once or twice a year for Ash Wednesday. However in the morning prayer group for lent nobody turned up. If we never had any religious things going on, nobody would complain, we are all just happy to miss a few classes for it. Even my religion teacher who studied theology in college, once said "some of you might be atheists and think I'm full of crap and that's fine".

So when I come on here and see people who have family members who don't like them because they are atheists, or complaining about some dumbass fundamentalist, I just can't understand it. I am of course assuming all of these cases are people in America. I wonder if it just seems worse than it is because all people who are oppressed by religion flock onto the forum.

Is it really as bad as it seems?

There is a resurgence in interest in God in the academy in America. This is especially evident in philosophy departments. Many up and coming philosophers in the academy are more outspoken about their faith than those in previous generations.

I rejoice in this. I believe God is raising up brilliant young men and women who will challenge the notions and beliefs of previous generations that science and religion must be against one another. More and more Christians are seeing the necessity in being culturally relevant and more and more professors in the academy are being challenged by their young students who are able to give a reasonable response to the hard questions leveled at them about their faith.

It is wonderful to some and horrible to others.
Cite? Yeah philosophers are filling bible studies.

The growth in evangelicalism is mostly in mega churches of the Joel Osteen variety shown in the pic. This isn't religion. It's the completely vacuous, god loves you so he wants to make you rich tale, and is so untrue to the bible that they can't even condemn homosexuals.

This lack of foundation will likely result in the facade crumbling within a generation. Youth in America are rejecting traditional religious dogma and anti-science in droves, which will eventually result in it operating at the margins like it does already in more educated nations.
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23-03-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 01:35 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 01:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  There is a resurgence in interest in God in the academy in America. This is especially evident in philosophy departments. Many up and coming philosophers in the academy are more outspoken about their faith than those in previous generations.

I rejoice in this. I believe God is raising up brilliant young men and women who will challenge the notions and beliefs of previous generations that science and religion must be against one another. More and more Christians are seeing the necessity in being culturally relevant and more and more professors in the academy are being challenged by their young students who are able to give a reasonable response to the hard questions leveled at them about their faith.

It is wonderful to some and horrible to others.

Challenging the notions of previous generations is something that the Christian Bible is quite vehemonently against.

The Christian Bible is against challenging the presupposition that science and religion are antagonistic?

Interesting. What Book chapter and verse is that to be found in?
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23-03-2014, 03:19 PM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2014 03:24 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: I just can't understand religion in America
(23-03-2014 02:33 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  Cite?

The Italicized portion is from Quentin Smith, atheist philosopher.

Abridged version in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism, pp. 69-85. Ed. M. Martin. Cambridge Companions to Philosophy. Cambridge University Press, 2007

Introduction

The last half-century has witnessed a veritable revolution in Anglo-American philosophy. In a recent retrospective, the eminent Princeton philosopher Paul Benacerraf recalls what it was like doing philosophy at Princeton during the 1950s and '60s. The overwhelmingly dominant mode of thinking was scientific naturalism. Metaphysics had been vanquished, expelled from philosophy like an unclean leper. Any problem that could not be addressed by science was simply dismissed as a pseudo-problem. Verificationism reigned triumphantly over the emerging science of philosophy. "This new enlightenment would put the old metaphysical views and attitudes to rest and replace them with the new mode of doing philosophy."1

The collapse of the Verificationism was undoubtedly the most important philosophical event of the twentieth century. Its demise meant a resurgence of metaphysics, along with other traditional problems of philosophy which Verificationism had suppressed. Accompanying this resurgence has come something new and altogether unanticipated: a renaissance in Christian philosophy.

The face of Anglo-American philosophy has been transformed as a result. Theism is on the rise; atheism is on the decline.2 Atheism, though perhaps still the dominant viewpoint at the American university, is a philosophy in retreat. In a recent article in the secularist journal Philo Quentin Smith laments what he calls "the desecularization of academia that evolved in philosophy departments since the late 1960s." He complains,

Naturalists passively watched as realist versions of theism. . . began to sweep through the philosophical community, until today perhaps one-quarter or one-third of philosophy professors are theists, with most being orthodox Christians . . . . in philosophy, it became, almost overnight, 'academically respectable' to argue for theism, making philosophy a favored field of entry for the most intelligent and talented theists entering academia today.3

Smith concludes, "God is not 'dead' in academia; he returned to life in the late 1960s and is now alive and well in his last academic stronghold, philosophy departments."

Bolded emphasis mine.



1 Paul Benacerraf, "What Mathematical Truth Could Not Be—I," in Benacerraf and His Critics, ed. Adam Morton and Stephen P. Stich (Oxford: Blackwell: 1996), p. 18.

2 The change has not gone unnoticed even in popular culture. In 1980 Time magazine ran major story entitled "Modernizing the Case for God" in which it described the movement among contemporary philosophers to refurbish the traditional arguments for God's existence. Time marveled, "In a quiet revolution in thought and argument that hardly anybody could have foreseen only two decades ago, God is making a comeback. Most intriguingly, this is happening not among theologians or ordinary believers, but in the crisp intellectual circles of academic philosophers, where the consensus had long banished the Almighty from fruitful discourse" ("Modernizing the Case for God," Time [7 April 1980], pp. 65-66). The article cites the late Roderick Chisholm to the effect that the reason that atheism was so influential a generation ago is that the brightest philosophers were atheists; but today, in his opinion, many of the brightest philosophers are theists, using a tough-minded intellectualism in defense of that belief that was formerly lacking on their side of the debate.

3 Quentin Smith, "The Metaphilosophy of Naturalism" Philo 4/2(2001): 3-4. A sign of the times: Philo itself, unable to succeed as a secular organ, has now become a journal for general philosophy of religion.

4 Ibid., p. 4.
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