I just need to vent
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04-05-2014, 12:42 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:32 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  So what people have been killed for not believing in God (speaking as one who adheres to naturalism). If you are consistent you must see this as nothing more than creatures acting according to the dictates of their genes. The homo sapien species contains humans who do certain things because they are what they are by virtue of their physiological makeup. You do not get angry when lions destroy the carcass of a zebra do you?

No - when it is an organized effort it is about maintaining community, and it is somewhat unjust, if the oppressed are peaceful.

Your "anger" argument is an individual situation of survival of the individual.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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04-05-2014, 12:54 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:11 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 10:20 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I haven't read through the whole thread so someone may have replied to your question. One of the main reasons atheists get angry about belief in god is because those who don't believe in this "coping mechanism" have been torchered, jailed and murdered in the name of god or denied other freedoms.
Like the black Americans, atheists construct a culture of rebellion, instead of a culture of trust and autonomy.

(04-05-2014 10:20 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yes in the past it probably has aided in survival because no one knew any better, but science has far surpassed religion in making life longer and healthier. Technology has saved many, many millions of lives over the past century and made life bearable to a far greater extent than religion ever could.
That is true, but you still need trust and cooperation to organize community; and religions still have that, and atheists, and blacks, remain dependent, because they trust their perceived oppressors more than they trust each other; and that creates an inconsistency in reasoning and leads to anger and discontent.

Huh? How do atheists and blacks "TRUST their oppressors MORE than they trust each other"? Are you saying blacks hate atheists more? Atheists are generally more tolerant of skin differences than theists? At least all the atheists I know are and some of the atheists I know are African Americans. [/i]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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04-05-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:11 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  That is true, but you still need trust and cooperation to organize community; and religions still have that, and atheists, and blacks, remain dependent, because they trust their perceived oppressors more than they trust each other; and that creates an inconsistency in reasoning and leads to anger and discontent.

Uh, yyyyyea well, I'm pretty sure it's you who creates an inconsistency in reasoning that leads to anger and discontent around here. Dodgy goofball

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-05-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(29-04-2014 09:48 PM)oneboredmartian Wrote:  I live in Mississippi.

That's your problem. Identified it like a pro!
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04-05-2014, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 04:14 PM by Chas.)
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 08:02 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Most have stated plainly that they are positively opposed to the notion of worshiping God because they see Him as a beast or what have you.

Atheists don't worship gods because atheists don't believe they exist.
We describe the god described in your Bible as horrific.
These are entirely separate subjects, yet you keep conflating them.

Quote:Many here have also shown their ignorance with regards to words in common usage. Once again, this display of ignorance comes from their own mouths, not mine.

You seem to be the one trying to redefine words to suit your arguments, not us.

Quote:In light of the above, these erroneous conceptualizations need correcting if they want to be seen as thinking men and women.

I actually do not think that many are as concerned about that as they would have people believe. If so, they would spend more time reading a dictionary than reading infidel websites run by people who are no more adept at correctly using words then they are.

I challenge you to word contests - I will kick your ass.

Why are you here?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:26 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 08:58 AM)DLJ Wrote:  You referred to 'many'. Please clarify.

Thanks.

Every atheist I have heard speak of the issue on television has spoken of tolerance in such a way as to see it as being synonymous with acceptance. Agnostics as well. In fact I will even say most of the atheists I have spoken with in the past several years about the issue have seen tolerance as synonynous with acceptance. Out of the roughly two hundred I have spoken with, roughly two thirds have spoken of tolerance as being synonymous with acceptance and those are just the ones I have dialogued with online.

You have completely misunderstood what was said. The claim is that the religious equate tolerance with acceptance. If you don't, good for you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:32 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 10:20 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I haven't read through the whole thread so someone may have replied to your question. One of the main reasons atheists get angry about belief in god is because those who don't believe in this "coping mechanism" have been torchered, jailed and murdered in the name of god or denied other freedoms. Yes in the past it probably has aided in survival because no one knew any better, but science has far surpassed religion in making life longer and healthier. Technology has saved many, many millions of lives over the past century and made life bearable to a far greater extent than religion ever could.

So what people have been killed for not believing in God (speaking as one who adheres to naturalism). If you are consistent you must see this as nothing more than creatures acting according to the dictates of their genes. The homo sapien species contains humans who do certain things because they are what they are by virtue of their physiological makeup. You do not get angry when lions destroy the carcass of a zebra do you?

This is not only a strawman but a vicious, nasty canard. You are strongly implying that atheists have no morals other than 'survival of the fittest'.

Piss off, you self-righteous moron.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:51 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:32 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 10:20 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I haven't read through the whole thread so someone may have replied to your question. One of the main reasons atheists get angry about belief in god is because those who don't believe in this "coping mechanism" have been torchered, jailed and murdered in the name of god or denied other freedoms. Yes in the past it probably has aided in survival because no one knew any better, but science has far surpassed religion in making life longer and healthier. Technology has saved many, many millions of lives over the past century and made life bearable to a far greater extent than religion ever could.

So what people have been killed for not believing in God (speaking as one who adheres to naturalism). If you are consistent you must see this as nothing more than creatures acting according to the dictates of their genes. The homo sapien species contains humans who do certain things because they are what they are by virtue of their physiological makeup. You do not get angry when lions destroy the carcass of a zebra do you?

I'm confused. Are you making the point that people can't control their own destiny or are you implying that is what you must believe in the absence of a belief in god?
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04-05-2014, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 05:21 PM by djhall.)
RE: I just need to vent
(04-05-2014 12:26 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Every atheist I have heard speak of the issue on television has spoken of tolerance in such a way as to see it as being synonymous with acceptance. Agnostics as well. In fact I will even say most of the atheists I have spoken with in the past several years about the issue have seen tolerance as synonynous with acceptance. Out of the roughly two hundred I have spoken with, roughly two thirds have spoken of tolerance as being synonymous with acceptance and those are just the ones I have dialogued with online.

I think this is one of the great societal debates of our time... what does it mean to be tolerant and how do we factor that into our values and ethics and morality.

I personally think our understanding of freedom of speech provides a promising template for how tolerance could or should be understood. As the famous quote goes, "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.” This, to me, is the essence of tolerance: Having one's own personal beliefs and judgements and living ones' own life in accordance, while equally defending the rights of others to have conflicting or opposing beliefs and judgements and live their own lives in accordance, without that defense constituting approval.

Acceptance and agreement and approval aren't the same thing. I accept that you believe in god. I don't agree. I don't even approve. I will happily and enthusiastically try to talk you out of it and convince you that belief is detrimental to you. However, I will vehemently defend your right to believe in god and pray and attend church and talk to other people about what you believe and the merits of agreeing with you instead. Our facilitation of each other's ability to agree to disagree, and live our lives accordingly, is the fundamental nature of tolerance.
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04-05-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: I just need to vent
Going back to the original post about christians who lived through a tornado thinking god had saved them, you could tell them this..."the ones who died are the ones god wanted closer to him. He chose to keep his distance from you and that might be an indicator that you won't be going to heaven. Your god doesn't save people. He kills them and in turn that saves them from the possibility of future sin here on earth. The longer you live here the more likely it is that you will be going to hell."

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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