I just need to vent
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05-05-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 06:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Any mention of the Bible right now is red herring tossing. It serves only to take focus off of my simple questions that have nothing to do with the bible whatsoever.

No, it's not. It puts your inane questioning into context.

As weird as it is for you to comprehend, there is no universal truth out there making rape bad. There is no cosmic force, no intelligent entity, no tangible object that makes it bad.

We, as humans say it's bad, because we have empathy, and realize it needlessly hurts another person. That's it. There's nothing more special to it than that. There's no amazing universal truth you're going to unearth once you get us to admit that.


(05-05-2014 06:33 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  If a woman is being raped as in the aforementioned hypothetical, would you have anything to say about it?

Nothing more than what I just said. It's just that you don't have anything to add from your war god, either, so this whole line of discussion is pretty stupid.
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05-05-2014, 07:00 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 06:46 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  As weird as it is for you to comprehend, there is no universal truth out there making rape bad.

You say the above and then say....

(05-05-2014 06:46 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  We, as humans say it's bad, because we have empathy, and realize it needlessly hurts another person.

You are saying that no human being should needlessly hurt another, but since you said that the only reason this is bad is because some humans say it is bad, then for those who disagree with you and say it is good (many exist who love inflicting harm upon others), then it is good because they say it is. But then one act can be both good and bad......according to you...

Facepalm
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05-05-2014, 07:04 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2014 07:25 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: I just need to vent
Facepalm

[edit] Get raped, Jeremy! Then get back to us on how you think it's wrong because "gawd", and not because your asshole hurts Dodgy

[Image: 26400-Abandon-thread-felix-red-bull-LsIl.gif]

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05-05-2014, 07:12 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 06:30 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 06:08 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Shock and horror probably.

Jeremy, I wish you would address the points I made. While I don't know for what purpose, I can see you are leading me down a path towards cultural relativism. I'll bite, but as much as I like to look introspectively at my own beliefs, I expect you at some point to justify yours.

Shock and horror....

Would you say that they had done something wrong?

By the way, I am addressing your points by first getting an idea of your views so that I will know best how to address your points.

I can't help but feel like we have had this discussion before, and I have made my point. There is no objective moral truth. In your scenario whats going on is wrong to me but its not wrong to the people doing it. That's the way things work unfortunately. Morality is subjective. If you have a better claim, then feel free to make it.
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05-05-2014, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2014 07:34 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 07:12 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  There is no objective moral truth. In your scenario whats going on is wrong to me but its not wrong to the people doing it. That's the way things work unfortunately. Morality is subjective. If you have a better claim, then feel free to make it.

So one act, such as rape the rape of this young woman, can be both right and wrong simultaneously?

Shocking

I am just making sure I understand you aright.

Now you are beginning to understand why it is that I think the moral argument for the existence of God is one of the most persuasive arguments.

You see the practical implications of the denial of objective moral values and duties.

The implication is that you can no longer accuse Christians for worshiping an evil God, or condemning homosexuality, or anything for that matter. You cannot even accuse anyone of doing anything wrong or evil for there is no such thing. It is just all opinions in your world. You have effectively removed yourself from even meaningfully engaging in moral discussions.

My friend, just because someone thinks it is okay to rape young girls does not mean it is okay. A person does not need to believe in the Bible to think that. To any sane individual, it is self-evident that rape is wrong in the same way that any sane individual who knows basic math knows that two and two is four, not five or ten.
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05-05-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: I just need to vent
I assume what is being said here (I didn't read the whole thing ) is that ethics are subjective as well as relative. You may even find yourself on both sides of the "good" and "bad" judgement.

You may go through life saying that theft is bad and refrain from doing it.

Then you hit a really bad patch and are starving. Will you steal that apple from that tree? Of course you will, you won't die staring at that apple tree, you will eat one.

A bit later, when you have recovered and are doing ok again, you will return to your non-stealing ethics.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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05-05-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 07:22 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 07:12 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  There is no objective moral truth. In your scenario whats going on is wrong to me but its not wrong to the people doing it. That's the way things work unfortunately. Morality is subjective. If you have a better claim, then feel free to make it.

So one act, such as rape the rape of this young woman, can be both right and wrong simultaneously?

Shocking

I am just making sure I understand you aright.

That would imply their is objective right and wrong. There isn't. According to myself its wrong, according to them its right, we can both hold opposing views of the same event at the same time.

A great example would be a suicide bombing. The bomber, martyr or murder? Depends on who you ask.
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05-05-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 07:04 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Facepalm

[edit] Get raped, Jeremy! Then get back to us on how you think it's wrong because "gawd", and not because your asshole hurts Dodgy

[Image: 26400-Abandon-thread-felix-red-bull-LsIl.gif]

One need not believe in God in order to recognize that rape is wrong my friend. Wrong regardless of whether or not the rapist thinks its just fine and dandy.
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05-05-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 07:34 PM)Dom Wrote:  I assume what is being said here (I didn't read the whole thing ) is that ethics are subjective as well as relative. You may even find yourself on both sides of the "good" and "bad" judgement.

You may go through life saying that theft is bad and refrain from doing it.

Then you hit a really bad patch and are starving. Will you steal that apple from that tree? Of course you will, you won't die staring at that apple tree, you will eat one.

A bit later, when you have recovered and are doing ok again, you will return to your non-stealing ethics.

Taking an apple off of a tree because one is starving and raping someone because they think it is cool are as different as night and day.

People give lip-service to moral relativism on internet forums and in philosophical papers, but let reality touch them in a certain fashion and these same people will repudiate their moral relativism and behave like every other person would.

If someone you love were to be brutally raped I guarantee that you would claim they had done something wrong REGARDLESS of whether or not the rapist thought it was a cool thing to do, and in so doing, you would be renouncing your relativism in favor of objectivism.
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05-05-2014, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2014 08:03 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: I just need to vent
(05-05-2014 07:34 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 07:22 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  So one act, such as rape the rape of this young woman, can be both right and wrong simultaneously?

Shocking

I am just making sure I understand you aright.

That would imply their is objective right and wrong. There isn't. According to myself its wrong, according to them its right, we can both hold opposing views of the same event at the same time.

A great example would be a suicide bombing. The bomber, martyr or murder? Depends on who you ask.

Remember to tell that to the atheists here the next time they start talking about the evil Bible and the evil God of the evil Bible and the evil Christians who worship this evil God.

A great example: Evil God or loving Father? All depends on who you ask!!!

Remember to chime in and say: "All depends on who you ask!" Thumbsup
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