I just need to vent
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03-05-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(29-04-2014 09:48 PM)oneboredmartian Wrote:  "God is good always." (From a person whose home was destroyed) - It seems to me if god were really good, he would have eliminated natural disasters from his grand design (or did Eve eating the apple cause them?)
I'm glad you are ok, and yes those types of comments are irritating and hard to understand.

About the part I quoted, I'm not sure if you were really asking about Eve or just mentioning it. But just in case you were asking, that is the "explanation" that I frequently hear. My response to it is this: If I push a book off of a table, it falls to the floor. You could say I caused it to fall to the floor, but in reality, gravity did. Now, I had foreknowledge of gravity, so that adds to my responsibility for the book falling to the floor. With Eve, she could not have caused natural disasters with her "sin" without God having first created the environment in which that cause-effect relationship could occur. However, unlike me with gravity, Eve had no foreknowledge of the consequences. The only thing that she was told by God is that she would die and the snake said she would be like God and know good and evil. That's all she knew. Therefore, the natural disasters are solely God's doing.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-05-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: I just need to vent
This to me is one of the most self centered aspects of Christianity. To praise god for sparing their child or house or mother from a tornado yet a block away someone's baby dies is incredibly callus. It's a form of greed wrapped up in religion. It's sickening!

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-05-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(29-04-2014 09:48 PM)oneboredmartian Wrote:  I live in Mississippi. If you have seen the news recently, my state (as well as neighboring ones) have been decimated by tornadoes. I personally know people whose house was destroyed. It's a very sad situation for those affected, and I was very lucky to get through it unscathed.

However, as you might expect, at times like this - especially in the Bible Belt - the praise to Jesus/God is in overdrive now. It would be a douche bag move on my part to mock these expressions now when people truly are hurting. But, I can't let some of there statements go unchallenged. So, I came here to do that.

"God is good always." (From a person whose home was destroyed) - It seems to me if god were really good, he would have eliminated natural disasters from his grand design (or did Eve eating the apple cause them?)

"I'm convinced only one thing saved me/my wife/my kids/my parents: Jesus" - As of now 53 people were killed. What did Jesus have against them?

"I don't know how anyone can get through something like this without Jesus." - Probably the same way you can get through it without Zeus or Ra.

I hope I don't come across as unsympathetic. As I said, it could have been me. But GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Thanks for listening.

You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Reading the book of Job must really be hard for you.

Or reading about how Christ was crucified between two thieves.
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03-05-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(29-04-2014 09:48 PM)oneboredmartian Wrote:  I live in Mississippi. If you have seen the news recently, my state (as well as neighboring ones) have been decimated by tornadoes. I personally know people whose house was destroyed. It's a very sad situation for those affected, and I was very lucky to get through it unscathed.

However, as you might expect, at times like this - especially in the Bible Belt - the praise to Jesus/God is in overdrive now. It would be a douche bag move on my part to mock these expressions now when people truly are hurting. But, I can't let some of there statements go unchallenged. So, I came here to do that.

"God is good always." (From a person whose home was destroyed) - It seems to me if god were really good, he would have eliminated natural disasters from his grand design (or did Eve eating the apple cause them?)

"I'm convinced only one thing saved me/my wife/my kids/my parents: Jesus" - As of now 53 people were killed. What did Jesus have against them?

"I don't know how anyone can get through something like this without Jesus." - Probably the same way you can get through it without Zeus or Ra.

I hope I don't come across as unsympathetic. As I said, it could have been me. But GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Thanks for listening.

You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Reading the book of Job must really be hard for you.

Or reading about how Christ was crucified between two thieves.

It's no harder than reading about Sisyphus or Achilles. It's myth - why would it be hard?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-05-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(29-04-2014 09:48 PM)oneboredmartian Wrote:  I live in Mississippi. If you have seen the news recently, my state (as well as neighboring ones) have been decimated by tornadoes. I personally know people whose house was destroyed. It's a very sad situation for those affected, and I was very lucky to get through it unscathed.

However, as you might expect, at times like this - especially in the Bible Belt - the praise to Jesus/God is in overdrive now. It would be a douche bag move on my part to mock these expressions now when people truly are hurting. But, I can't let some of there statements go unchallenged. So, I came here to do that.

"God is good always." (From a person whose home was destroyed) - It seems to me if god were really good, he would have eliminated natural disasters from his grand design (or did Eve eating the apple cause them?)

"I'm convinced only one thing saved me/my wife/my kids/my parents: Jesus" - As of now 53 people were killed. What did Jesus have against them?

"I don't know how anyone can get through something like this without Jesus." - Probably the same way you can get through it without Zeus or Ra.

I hope I don't come across as unsympathetic. As I said, it could have been me. But GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Thanks for listening.

You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Reading the book of Job must really be hard for you.

Or reading about how Christ was crucified between two thieves.

I spent most of my life as a believer. The story of Job always seemed fucked up and wrong to me, even if I was able to mentally "gloss over" the fact that it paints god as a dick and still believe.

I'm not on the outside looking in, I'm standing in the middle and saying, "did I really subscribe to this shit before?".

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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03-05-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Reading the book of Job must really be hard for you.

Or reading about how Christ was crucified between two thieves.

It's no harder than reading about Sisyphus or Achilles. It's myth - why would it be hard?

It seems it would be hard for the person I addressed the reply to based on the things said person wrote in their post.

I was not addressing what I said to you.
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03-05-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:06 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Reading the book of Job must really be hard for you.

Or reading about how Christ was crucified between two thieves.

I spent most of my life as a believer. The story of Job always seemed fucked up and wrong to me, even if I was able to mentally "gloss over" the fact that it paints god as a dick and still believe.

I'm not on the outside looking in, I'm standing in the middle and saying, "did I really subscribe to this shit before?".

I did not say you were on the outside looking in. Thank you for sharing your opinion with me though. Thumbsup
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03-05-2014, 04:16 PM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2014 04:20 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Yes and no.

He clearly stated that he understood people use it as a coping method. He just doesn't understand why it's such a popular one since it's so two-faced. Praising god for one's survival is the opposite of survival guilt. Instead of asking "why did I survive," they go "I survived because of god," which according to their beliefs, is the one who would have let the unnecessary hardship burden one in the first place.

I understand that people need to cope, but I really do get aggravated when people who survive an event which killed a substantial number of other people attribute their survival to god. It's because they don't stop at attributing, they flat out start WORSHIPPING him. How can you so selfishly worship and praise the very thing in a manner that makes you come across as completely unaware that it was the same thing that so callously took the lives of others? What made them such a special fucking sunflower to be worth saving over the dozens of others that were mercilessly killed? It comes across as the same type of rationality that fuels Stockholm Syndrome, "if I grovel at his feet, maybe he will spare me the next time as well."

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03-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:16 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 04:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You come across as someone who is on the outside looking in. It seems strange to you that people would rely in and hope in and praise God despite their hardships.

Yes and no.

He clearly stated that he understood people use it as a coping method. He just doesn't understand why it's such a popular one since it's so two-faced. Praising god for one's survival is the opposite of survival guilt. Instead of asking "why did I survive," they go "I survived because of god," which according to their beliefs, is the one who would have let the unnecessary hardship burden one in the first place.

I understand that people need to cope, but I really do get aggravated when people who survive and event which killed a substantial number of other people attribute their survival to god. What made them such a special fucking sunflower to be worth saving over the dozens of others that were mercilessly killed?

Can I dialogue with you? I have some questions to ask you.

With all seriousness.
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03-05-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 04:16 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Yes and no.

He clearly stated that he understood people use it as a coping method. He just doesn't understand why it's such a popular one since it's so two-faced. Praising god for one's survival is the opposite of survival guilt. Instead of asking "why did I survive," they go "I survived because of god," which according to their beliefs, is the one who would have let the unnecessary hardship burden one in the first place.

I understand that people need to cope, but I really do get aggravated when people who survive and event which killed a substantial number of other people attribute their survival to god. What made them such a special fucking sunflower to be worth saving over the dozens of others that were mercilessly killed?

Can I dialogue with you? I have some questions to ask you.

With all seriousness.

Go to the boxing ring. It doesn't necessarily have to be a debate, but it limits the conversation to you and one other person without distraction. That is if Tarty feels the need to join you there.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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