I just need to vent
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06-05-2014, 08:57 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 08:53 AM)natachan Wrote:  God endorses rape. If you deny that then you are either lying or deliberately blind. Or, heaven forbid, you don't consider forced sexual slavery rape.

You think someone who endorses slavery and rape should be ashamed and feel guilty and bad because of that.

You can only say that if you believe they have done something that they know should not be done regardless of their opinion about it.

You speak as a moral realist, not a relativist.

Get it?
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06-05-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 04:56 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(05-05-2014 11:33 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Yeah, djhall and I are pretty much of the same opinion I think, good points made. Eagerly awaiting your response jeremy.

The point he made is that humans should so order their lives as to produce the best observable outcome as it relates to the human condition. He thinks this is a moral obligation i.e. that if some person or people group does not live in such a way then they need to be corrected for not meeting this obligation.

The only problem Michael is that you agree with him and also at the same time say no one has any moral obligations because they do not exist.

God has so ordered the world and us that we know by intuition that we are obligated to Him and to each other to do certain things. Even in trying to deny this, you affirm it for the aforementioned reason.

On your view, there is no such thing as moral progress. Or moral reform. For there is nothing to progress to. There is no ideal that we should aim for. One opinion is no closer to some independently existing ideal of morality than the next because no such objective ideal about how we ought to live exists.

You need to come to terms with the full range of implications and ramifications of your untenable view on morality.

Part of being atheist is learning to come to terms with the fact that no man in the sky is going to tell how things aught to be, we have to decide for ourselves. There is no reason to believe we more significant, or special then we are. In light of this it it becomes even more important to look to one another and try to help each other in this life. I take a humanistic moral position because I think it provides the greatest freedom and the most rights to the most people, but I don't delude myself with believing that my moral view has any kind of divine providence.

If you believe in God you get the luxury of certainty. Atheist are not afforded that luxury. It doesn't mean we are immoral, and it doesn't make moral theory inconsistent, just acknowledgeably inconcrete.

I am not fixed in my position. If you present a better argument, I will be forced to admit you are right and I am wrong and adopt your position. Be prepared to defend it though.
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06-05-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 08:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:56 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Jeremy...

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

Drinking Beverage

I saw no where in anything provided where God commanded His people to rape women.

Sorry. You fail.
It shows how your god condones rape and couldn't care less about rape victims. And, since the bible is supposedly god's blueprint for morality, then he considers the rape of women to be morally acceptable. Does that page I linked give an example of where he directly says to rape a woman? No. Does it need to? No. How do you just ignore all that just so you can say "see, I'm right"...? Unbelievable.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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06-05-2014, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2014 09:38 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I just need to vent
If you need a vent, suggest you contact an HVAC contractor in your area.
http://hvac.networx.com/
Angel

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-05-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 09:07 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:50 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I saw no where in anything provided where God commanded His people to rape women.

Sorry. You fail.
It shows how your god condones rape and couldn't care less about rape victims. And, since the bible is supposedly god's blueprint for morality, then he considers the rape of women to be morally acceptable. Does that page I linked give an example of where he directly says to rape a woman? No. Does it need to? No. How do you just ignore all that just so you can say "see, I'm right"...? Unbelievable.

I do not feel quilty or ashamed when I eat pizza and someone tells me it is nasty and that I should not eat it.

I recognize that as their opinion and thank them for sharing it with me.

If you deny the objectivity of the moral prohibition against rape then it is nothing more than your opinion that rape is wrong.

what you are ignorant of is a point made by C.S. Lewis. He stated that when two people are engaging in a moral discussion, both parties believe that their views are more than just their opinions. They each believe that their views are true and they present arguments for them to convince the other that their view is true and preferable.

But if there are no moral truths then engaging in moral discussion is an exercise in futility.
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06-05-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 09:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 09:07 AM)Impulse Wrote:  It shows how your god condones rape and couldn't care less about rape victims. And, since the bible is supposedly god's blueprint for morality, then he considers the rape of women to be morally acceptable. Does that page I linked give an example of where he directly says to rape a woman? No. Does it need to? No. How do you just ignore all that just so you can say "see, I'm right"...? Unbelievable.

I do not feel quilty or ashamed when I eat pizza and someone tells me it is nasty and that I should not eat it.

I recognize that as their opinion and thank them for sharing it with me.

If you deny the objectivity of the moral prohibition against rape then it is nothing more than your opinion that rape is wrong.

what you are ignorant of is a point made by C.S. Lewis. He stated that when two people are engaging in a moral discussion, both parties believe that their views are more than just their opinions. They each believe that their views are true and they present arguments for them to convince the other that their view is true and preferable.

But if there are no moral truths then engaging in moral discussion is an exercise in futility.

Hmm... relating eating pizza with raping inocent young women - you need to seek some help there buddy. Damn man, you would at least gain a shred of respect if you fundies just admit to what it says and avoid the denial and mental dancing. To brush it away as it is only wrong in your opinion and not mine or Gods is plain friggin sick. You are a disgusting and ignorant human being.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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06-05-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 10:16 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  You are a disgusting and ignorant human being.

Everyone is.

Truth seeker.
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06-05-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 10:21 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:16 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  You are a disgusting and ignorant human being.

Everyone is.

Take your pills, try to get out for a while.

Making the pathetic distinction between a deity permitting rape, and not "commanding" it shows the ridiculous extremes regionists need to go, to deflect the cognitive dissonance they experience when being forced to face the fact that their ancient angry barbaric war-god deity their cultic ancestors "contracted" with, ("covenant") was really just another local protector god, and just as "immoral" any any human might be imagined to be.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-05-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 09:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not feel quilty or ashamed when I eat pizza and someone tells me it is nasty and that I should not eat it.
Someone..? What about societal definitions do you not understand? And what does "nasty" pizza have to do with morality anyway? You're not even trying. Your intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds. Dodgy

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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06-05-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:21 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Everyone is.

Take your pills, try to get out for a while.

Making the pathetic distinction between a deity permitting rape, and not "commanding" it shows the ridiculous extremes regionists need to go, to deflect the cognitive dissonance they experience when being forced to face the fact that their ancient angry barbaric war-god deity their cultic ancestors "contracted" with, ("covenant") was really just another local protector god, and just as "immoral" any any human might be imagined to be.

I'm not qualified to judge an infinite being. I'm a pathetic piece of shit.

Truth seeker.
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