I just need to vent
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06-05-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 08:28 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:26 AM)natachan Wrote:  "God never told anyone to rape anyone so I do not understand your point."

Yes. He did. Very explicitly. He stated that the Israelites were to keep the women they conquered for themselves. What do you think that meant? He told the men to rape these women and gave the action his blessing. Was this ok? Was the forced sexual servitude of these women not really rape?

If you like Chas or Michael deny objective moral values and duties exist then like Michael, you must simply confess: "Depends who you ask!"

Confess? What do you mean 'confess'?

There is a basic moral sense among humans that evolved. Among the evidence for this is the studies that have been done comparing the attitudes of different populations (various ethnicity and religion and politics) and the results are in strong agreement across all groups that harming other humans is not moral.

We also see evolved behaviors that compare to morality among animals like dolphins, elephants, and apes.

Societies build upon this base of empathy and identification to create their morals, ethics, and mores. So, no, it does not really "depend who you ask" when it comes to basic morality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-05-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 10:37 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Take your pills, try to get out for a while.

Making the pathetic distinction between a deity permitting rape, and not "commanding" it shows the ridiculous extremes regionists need to go, to deflect the cognitive dissonance they experience when being forced to face the fact that their ancient angry barbaric war-god deity their cultic ancestors "contracted" with, ("covenant") was really just another local protector god, and just as "immoral" any any human might be imagined to be.

I'm not qualified to judge an infinite being. I'm a pathetic piece of shit.

I know hun. It's your way of of attention seeking. Making people feel sorry for you.
It's only gonna work for so long. Then you will actually have to take responsibility for yourself and your life, no matter the circumstances. I sincerely wish I could help you in some way. I don't see how that is possible. A positive self-image is built slowly over time. You *must* be good at something, or have something you're interested in. Whatever that is ... pursue it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-05-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 11:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:37 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  I'm not qualified to judge an infinite being. I'm a pathetic piece of shit.

I know hun. It's your way of of attention seeking. Making people feel sorry for you.
It's only gonna work for so long. Then you will actually have to take responsibility for yourself and your life, no matter the circumstances. I sincerely wish I could help you in some way. I don't see how that is possible. A positive self-image is built slowly over time. You *must* be good at something, or have something you're interested in. Whatever that is ... pursue it.

I have no interests. My life fucking sucks.

Truth seeker.
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06-05-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 11:58 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 11:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I know hun. It's your way of of attention seeking. Making people feel sorry for you.
It's only gonna work for so long. Then you will actually have to take responsibility for yourself and your life, no matter the circumstances. I sincerely wish I could help you in some way. I don't see how that is possible. A positive self-image is built slowly over time. You *must* be good at something, or have something you're interested in. Whatever that is ... pursue it.

I have no interests. My life fucking sucks.

Interest 1 - Bitching on the internet.


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06-05-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 09:07 AM)Impulse Wrote:  It shows how your god condones rape and couldn't care less about rape victims. And, since the bible is supposedly god's blueprint for morality, then he considers the rape of women to be morally acceptable. Does that page I linked give an example of where he directly says to rape a woman? No. Does it need to? No. How do you just ignore all that just so you can say "see, I'm right"...? Unbelievable.

(06-05-2014 10:16 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Hmm... relating eating pizza with raping inocent young women - you need to seek some help there buddy. Damn man, you would at least gain a shred of respect if you fundies just admit to what it says and avoid the denial and mental dancing. To brush it away as it is only wrong in your opinion and not mine or Gods is plain friggin sick. You are a disgusting and ignorant human being.


There is no reasoning with a rape apologist.


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06-05-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 12:13 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 11:58 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  I have no interests. My life fucking sucks.

Interest 1 - Bitching on the internet.


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Because you guys are so fucking arrogant and optimistic, and I'm curious as to how you rationalize it with our society going to hell.

Truth seeker.
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06-05-2014, 01:31 PM
RE: I just need to vent
In the most recent TTA podcast the guests spoke about obective morality, and brought up some good points. It starts around minute 40 and goes until about 44:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCd3Jtt1...tube_gdata
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06-05-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: I just need to vent
Is Jeremy trying to argue a false dichotomy between these two positions?

Moral values are objective truths, similar to mathematical objects, that exist “out there”, independent of human thought, culture, or biology.
--OR --
Moral values are entirely arbitrary and culturally relative. Our deepest intuitions and thoughts about what is right or wrong are nothing more than a collection of arbitrary personal preferences and early indoctrination of cultural preferences.
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06-05-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 06:44 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You therefore think rape is objectively wrong. I.e. that it is wrong even if someone thinks it is right. But now you have to explain why this is objectively wrong? What makes it wrong OBJECTIVELY?
....
You can't say we all know it is wrong because we have empathy. That is not what I ask. I dont care how you know something to be wrong but rather, what makes it wrong....objectively?

"Objectivity", 'objectively", and "proof" are ideal standards that can and should be aspired to, but which can never be conclusively attained in human endeavors. Humans can't conclusively prove something is conclusively and objectively right or wrong. Nor can we conclusively and objectively prove that god exists. Nor can we conclusively and objectively prove that if a god exists then god's morals are objectively and conclusively right.

That isn't the same as saying nothing is, or can ever be, true in an objective sense. Things can be objectively true even though we can't objectively prove them to be so. As humans, there is no point where we can prove we are now omniscient and therefore we know everything there is, ever can be to, and ever will be to know, and therefore we have attained the ability to make objective conclusions that are and always will be true.

But "not able to be objectively proven to be objective" isn't the same as random, arbitrary, and valueless. It simply means we have to accept the human inevitability of working with concepts and information that are proven-ish and objective-ish wile eternally striving for objectivity and proof and truth.
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06-05-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(06-05-2014 10:16 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 09:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not feel quilty or ashamed when I eat pizza and someone tells me it is nasty and that I should not eat it.

I recognize that as their opinion and thank them for sharing it with me.

If you deny the objectivity of the moral prohibition against rape then it is nothing more than your opinion that rape is wrong.

what you are ignorant of is a point made by C.S. Lewis. He stated that when two people are engaging in a moral discussion, both parties believe that their views are more than just their opinions. They each believe that their views are true and they present arguments for them to convince the other that their view is true and preferable.

But if there are no moral truths then engaging in moral discussion is an exercise in futility.

Hmm... relating eating pizza with raping inocent young women - you need to seek some help there buddy. Damn man, you would at least gain a shred of respect if you fundies just admit to what it says and avoid the denial and mental dancing. To brush it away as it is only wrong in your opinion and not mine or Gods is plain friggin sick. You are a disgusting and ignorant human being.
You cannot make that statement and deny the existence of God at the same time.
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