I just need to vent
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09-05-2014, 02:41 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 02:47 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: I just need to vent
(09-05-2014 07:44 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Shituba Dangan, is something wrong with slavery?


Yes, there is. We can study and see that slavery has negative effects on humans whom are under it. Common negative traits which happen are abuse, lack of healthy nutrition, psychological trauma, heavy amounts of stress, shorter lifespans, poor living conditions, and the list goes on but those are things which are wrong with it and we consider bad since we view nations with similar issues to be a place where we generally wouldn't want to live in.





So yes, it is wrong. I then question why God would even think of allowing slavery within the Bible full knowing the horrific actions and events humans would do with slavery. God could have simply said no slavery and even if humans did slavery it wouldn't be under God's name and they wouldn't be able to use God as an excuse for slavery.

God would have been on the right side of history but he was not.

Instead God was contradictory, confused and simply could be interpreted in whichever way humans wanted it to be. If they needed an excuse for war God could be it. For subjugation of women? God. Hatred for those they didn't like? God. I think its sad God could so easily be misused by these groups and truly wonder why he would have ever allowed this especially because he apparently 'loves' us so.

So, why am I against slavery? Because, I come from a very poor background and had family members who literally worked to death to get to the country I live in today and have been abused, overworked and treated like they weren't equal.

To me, I don't want that for anybody. So that is why I am against slavery and not because of God telling me to be against it or simultaneously be able to tell me to be for it but simply because with family history I learned and realized why it was wrong and I hope to change that for future generations.

Your morality sounds very childish. As if you think God somehow justifies horrors in the world. I can't accept that and those who have lived through such atrocities deserve the most explanation from God. Instead they are given nothing and the followers choose to ignore the inconveniences to them.

So your morality is a cherry picking one, while I choose to have one where we question, study, and learn what is right and continually focus on making it better. I would have loved if the God of the Bible stated women are equal and they deserve equal attention and have as much say as a male does but he didn't and we had to wait years to accomplish equality between genders. The God of the Bible would have been a hero since he does describe to forgive but then states how to brutally kill people.

The blatant flaws here are just troubling if we have to take this religion seriously. I would ask you where in the Bible does it tell us slavery is wrong. If its supposed to be a book of answers and knowledge you should be able to give me some but of course we have to also take into account the verses the verses that support slavery.

(09-05-2014 07:44 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Is something wrong with stoning adulterers?

Yes, again there is something definitely wrong with brutally murdering two humans in public. I don't know if you have ever seen a stoning and I wouldn't really recommend watching one regardless but the event is often displayed with onlookers as they horrendously kill these people. I don't use these words lightly and it is as terrible an experience as you might imagine. Two humans having sex even if its adultery do not deserve that. It might definitely make the person angry who was married to either one of them but death and especially in that way is not a suitable punishment at all. These people did not physically harm anyone, they are not murderers or rapists. They had consensual sex outside of marriage and only caused likely jealousy and anger to a spouse they should either be forgiven by their spouse or should seek a divorce. It is not something that should be dealt with death especially because sex is part of humanity and something we do. If someone cheated on you, you deserve better! Or maybe if it was a mistake and you can forgive them its completely up to you but taking them out to a courtyard, burying them up to their shoulders and beating them with rocks until they die is not the way to do it.

So in the end, do you believe that's moral? Just because your 'interpretation' of the Bible says so? Or do you just believe its taken 'out of context' despite being very blunt about it?

Where does your own morality fall on this?

These are two very easy questions and I say take a course in anthropology as I have or just look through anthropology. I think the study of humans will easily answer these questions for you. Its how I learned a lot about religion, our species, ourselves and how we view our world as different peoples.

As long as you have an open mind you should find a lot fascinating I don't plan on changing your beliefs since it seems you do not care about that at all but you can at least learn more things through that and maybe find things that interest you about humanity morality since it is something that is touched upon a lot.





Morality is an interesting thing and one thing I definitely enjoy looking into but to think God is needed for morality especially when it has things which we definitely do not consider moral today. I do question what would have happened if we truly had a real all knowing and all powerful God. Imagine the truly moral world we would have had if we had an all loving and all knowing God.

Instead we see no such thing.

So I hope I answered your questions and please ask anymore you may have.

(09-05-2014 08:52 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why should I know this?

You should know this just from living. Your morality likely came from your parents whom told you bad from good like punishing you for fighting or stealing and rewarding you for getting good grades and sharing. You should also been told at school since schools generally frown upon slavery and criminalize it which is very good because of our past.

So your morality erupted from plenty of things I just do hope you don't only believe its from God. You would just be ignoring your mother and fathers parenting and other things which likely affected you.

That is how morality develops.

And that is likely how you and I have gained it. From experiences not from God.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

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09-05-2014, 04:56 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(09-05-2014 02:41 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  Yes, there is. We can study and see that slavery has negative effects on humans whom are under it. Common negative traits which happen are abuse, lack of healthy nutrition, psychological trauma, heavy amounts of stress, shorter lifespans, poor living conditions, and the list goes on but those are things which are wrong with it and we consider bad since we view nations with similar issues to be a place where we generally wouldn't want to live in.

From what I can tell you affirm premise two of the moral argument. Is this correct?
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10-05-2014, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2014 01:23 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: I just need to vent
(09-05-2014 04:56 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 02:41 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  Yes, there is. We can study and see that slavery has negative effects on humans whom are under it. Common negative traits which happen are abuse, lack of healthy nutrition, psychological trauma, heavy amounts of stress, shorter lifespans, poor living conditions, and the list goes on but those are things which are wrong with it and we consider bad since we view nations with similar issues to be a place where we generally wouldn't want to live in.

From what I can tell you affirm premise two of the moral argument. Is this correct?

Are you stating that if God did not exist, then there could not be any objective morality?

And that premise 2 is that there is objective morality.

Therefore God exists?

Because that is ridiculously flawed and has blatant errors or is there another moral argument maybe?

I do not want to put words in your mouth but I affirm that morality is subjective in the sense it is within society which dictates (situations also influece morality) it which we can study and see from culture to culture since even in different places we can similarities and differences in morality. Like the horrible female genital mutilation that is accepted in some societies to the similarities like murder being bad to the differences in punishments for crime so there are a lot of things but do I think morality can grow to be better. Absolutely what we may believe to be moral now could definitely change over the years and our hope is that they do not change it for the worse but they study and learn and realize to benefit humanity in its entirety and as a while but while also protecting the rights of those which are small and minorities.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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