I just need to vent
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03-05-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: I just need to vent
In fact, taking these things to their logical conclusion, even the ranting and raving and anger here in this forum can be attributed solely to each and everyone's particular physiological makeup which causes you to think the way you do, act the way you do, and say the things you do.

The reality is, if we are homo sapiens who have evolved from some sort of whatever you want to call it, then some homo sapiens are hard-wired to believe in God and some are not.

Those who do not will say belief in God is silly because that thought or belief (that God exists) is the by-product of certain chemical reactions taking place in their brain.

Those who do will say disbelief in God is silly because that thought or belief (that God does not exist) is the by-product of certain chemical reactions taking place in their brain.

And since there is no way for us to step outside of our familiar five senses to test their veridicality, we cannot say we know anything with certainty! (Except maybe that "I" exist)....

Gasp
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03-05-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 04:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 10:18 PM)CindysRain Wrote:  Martian, we are far more compassionate than the god of the bible.

I watched a video recently of a couple men who risked their lives to help a deer who fell through the ice, on a frozen lake, and couldn't get out. It took them a very long time, but they would not give up. Humans = 1 God = 0

No matter the outcome, god always gets the credit. It's creepy how they all say the same phrases, time after time too!

I live near Cleveland where those 3 girls were held prisoner for 10 years. I could not believe the people who gave god, not the girls, credit for them surviving and getting free. Where was this god while those sweet girls were being raped, beaten, and abused for 10 long years?

I think you have every right to be angry, but I understand you being careful what you say.

Your reply pretty much sums up the sentiment of those here so as a Christian I would like to address it.

To begin with, it is commonly held that belief in God is little more than a coping mechanism homo sapiens possess by virtue of it facilitating and aiding in our survival as a species. It is said that such belief has helped homo sapiens endure and cope with hard circumstances and situations during the course of our evolution.

Kind of like how bears hibernate in the winter, a snake sheds its skin, or a caterpillar turning into a butterfly and various other aspects of evolution that all aid and facilitate in the survival of a species. It is said that beliefs in God when it comes to homo sapiens are no different. They aid homo sapiens in evolving, that is it.

Now, for all of those who see belief in God to be nothing more than a socio-biological mechanism that aids in our survival, please explain to me why you are so angry when you hear about this mechanism in action?

Do you all also rant and rave and vent about accounts of bears hibernating?

Or when you read about snakes shedding their skin or camels conserving vital resources in their humps, do you make a beeline to this forum to vent about such things?

After watching a show on animal planet, do you call your friends up and vent to them about the audacity of the blowfish when it puffs itself up to ward off predators?


Shocking

Rolleyes

Why is no one venting and angry about these things? Why is it that the only by-product of the evolutionary process that gets attention from atheists is the socio-biological coping mechanism of belief in God?

It seems that many of you should be angry at evolution and nature for what you see in cases like the one mentioned by the OP.

If I were an atheist and believed that belief in God was merely a coping mechanism essential to our survival as a species, I would be happy to see these people saying these things because it would be proof to me that our socio-biological processes were alive and well and helping us to cope and endure and survive.

I would be happy to see my fellow homo sapiens rallying together under one common bond and rising above their calamities and circumstances to survive and carry on their genes.

What do you all have against evolution?

Or maybe it is not evolution you have a problem with at all.......


You realize that atheists hope for good things to happen all the time. However it's based on reason and logic and the knowledge that good and bad events can happen by chance or by working hard for a particular outcome. God has zero to do with it. To overcome adversity (and I know a hell of lot about adversity) takes time, help from others, working through problems and knowledge.

I'm 55 and have been through some events in my life that would have flattened most theists but I got through it without one drop of belief in any god and I've survived it all with my sense of humor intact and constant hope for the future.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-05-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 06:03 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In fact, taking these things to their logical conclusion, even the ranting and raving and anger here in this forum can be attributed solely to each and everyone's particular physiological makeup which causes you to think the way you do, act the way you do, and say the things you do.

The reality is, if we are homo sapiens who have evolved from some sort of whatever you want to call it, then some homo sapiens are hard-wired to believe in God and some are not.

Those who do not will say belief in God is silly because that thought or belief (that God exists) is the by-product of certain chemical reactions taking place in their brain.

Those who do will say disbelief in God is silly because that thought or belief (that God does not exist) is the by-product of certain chemical reactions taking place in their brain.

And since there is no way for us to step outside of our familiar five senses to test their veridicality, we cannot say we know anything with certainty! (Except maybe that "I" exist)....

Gasp

Homo-Sapiens are hard wired to be curious, to want answers to questions of where we came from, why we're here etc...

The god you believe in has been worshipped in one form or another for about 4,000 years... Not very long, even in human terms. Of what we know, humans have invented at least 3,000 deities.

Through the ages preceding science and reasoning, religion has satisfied man's need for answers... But, time after time, those beliefs have been shown to be false. Not by other belief systems, but by the process of science, which is concerned only with the facts... However difficult or uncomfortable they may be.

Before you say it, science is not a belief, or a religion, it is a tool by which we can learn how this universe works, how it came to be, and our place in it.

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03-05-2014, 06:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2014 06:21 PM by daylightisabadthing.)
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 05:48 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  For the homo sapiens in question, their belief in God helps them cope and survive. Period.
Except that it doesn't. Period.

Homo sapiens is not a plural.

People survive "acts of god" through either their own physical or mental strengths or through the assistance of. social mechanisms, which actually can be bolstered by religion but do not require it. Belief itself has no practical outcome.

"While religions tell us next to nothing useful or true about the universe, they do tell us an enormous amount - perhaps an embarrassing amount - about ourselves, about what we value, fear and lust after." Iain M Banks
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03-05-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 06:18 PM)daylightisabadthing Wrote:  Except that it doesn't. Period.

It does not help YOU cope. But it helps millions cope, survive and reproduce.


(03-05-2014 06:18 PM)daylightisabadthing Wrote:  People survive "acts of god" through either their own physical or mental strengths or through the assistance of. social mechanisms, which actually can be bolstered by religion but do not require it. Belief itself has no practical outcome.

Once again this applies to you and those who deny God. Belief in God has helped millions cope, survive and reproduce.

This does not mean God exists. It means that belief in God has helped millions cope, survive and reproduce.

And since this is a simple fact the same way that camels utilize their humps to conserve water in order to survive and reproduce, criticizing the homo sapien for believing in God in order to cope and not criticizing the camel for what it does is inconsistent.
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03-05-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 06:17 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 06:03 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In fact, taking these things to their logical conclusion, even the ranting and raving and anger here in this forum can be attributed solely to each and everyone's particular physiological makeup which causes you to think the way you do, act the way you do, and say the things you do.

The reality is, if we are homo sapiens who have evolved from some sort of whatever you want to call it, then some homo sapiens are hard-wired to believe in God and some are not.

Those who do not will say belief in God is silly because that thought or belief (that God exists) is the by-product of certain chemical reactions taking place in their brain.

Those who do will say disbelief in God is silly because that thought or belief (that God does not exist) is the by-product of certain chemical reactions taking place in their brain.

And since there is no way for us to step outside of our familiar five senses to test their veridicality, we cannot say we know anything with certainty! (Except maybe that "I" exist)....

Gasp

Homo-Sapiens are hard wired to be curious, to want answers to questions of where we came from, why we're here etc...

The god you believe in has been worshipped in one form or another for about 4,000 years... Not very long, even in human terms. Of what we know, humans have invented at least 3,000 deities.

Through the ages preceding science and reasoning, religion has satisfied man's need for answers... But, time after time, those beliefs have been shown to be false. Not by other belief systems, but by the process of science, which is concerned only with the facts... However difficult or uncomfortable they may be.

Before you say it, science is not a belief, or a religion, it is a tool by which we can learn how this universe works, how it came to be, and our place in it.

What beliefs have been shown to be false by science that men have held as answers that have satisfied their needs?
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03-05-2014, 07:02 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 06:10 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 04:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Your reply pretty much sums up the sentiment of those here so as a Christian I would like to address it.

To begin with, it is commonly held that belief in God is little more than a coping mechanism homo sapiens possess by virtue of it facilitating and aiding in our survival as a species. It is said that such belief has helped homo sapiens endure and cope with hard circumstances and situations during the course of our evolution.

Kind of like how bears hibernate in the winter, a snake sheds its skin, or a caterpillar turning into a butterfly and various other aspects of evolution that all aid and facilitate in the survival of a species. It is said that beliefs in God when it comes to homo sapiens are no different. They aid homo sapiens in evolving, that is it.

Now, for all of those who see belief in God to be nothing more than a socio-biological mechanism that aids in our survival, please explain to me why you are so angry when you hear about this mechanism in action?

Do you all also rant and rave and vent about accounts of bears hibernating?

Or when you read about snakes shedding their skin or camels conserving vital resources in their humps, do you make a beeline to this forum to vent about such things?

After watching a show on animal planet, do you call your friends up and vent to them about the audacity of the blowfish when it puffs itself up to ward off predators?


Shocking

Rolleyes

Why is no one venting and angry about these things? Why is it that the only by-product of the evolutionary process that gets attention from atheists is the socio-biological coping mechanism of belief in God?

It seems that many of you should be angry at evolution and nature for what you see in cases like the one mentioned by the OP.

If I were an atheist and believed that belief in God was merely a coping mechanism essential to our survival as a species, I would be happy to see these people saying these things because it would be proof to me that our socio-biological processes were alive and well and helping us to cope and endure and survive.

I would be happy to see my fellow homo sapiens rallying together under one common bond and rising above their calamities and circumstances to survive and carry on their genes.

What do you all have against evolution?

Or maybe it is not evolution you have a problem with at all.......


You realize that atheists hope for good things to happen all the time. However it's based on reason and logic and the knowledge that good and bad events can happen by chance or by working hard for a particular outcome. God has zero to do with it. To overcome adversity (and I know a hell of lot about adversity) takes time, help from others, working through problems and knowledge.

I'm 55 and have been through some events in my life that would have flattened most theists but I got through it without one drop of belief in any god and I've survived it all with my sense of humor intact and constant hope for the future.

God has zero to do with it with regards to atheists. This is not controversial.

You seem to be under the impression that everyone is an atheist.
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03-05-2014, 07:48 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 07:01 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 06:17 PM)Sam Wrote:  Homo-Sapiens are hard wired to be curious, to want answers to questions of where we came from, why we're here etc...

The god you believe in has been worshipped in one form or another for about 4,000 years... Not very long, even in human terms. Of what we know, humans have invented at least 3,000 deities.

Through the ages preceding science and reasoning, religion has satisfied man's need for answers... But, time after time, those beliefs have been shown to be false. Not by other belief systems, but by the process of science, which is concerned only with the facts... However difficult or uncomfortable they may be.

Before you say it, science is not a belief, or a religion, it is a tool by which we can learn how this universe works, how it came to be, and our place in it.

What beliefs have been shown to be false by science that men have held as answers that have satisfied their needs?

The belief that sex outside marriage is wrong comes to mind Shy
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03-05-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 05:15 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 05:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  I just explained it, but you didn't understand it.

We have cognitive skills that aid in survival - religion and belief in gods are not among those skills.

They are the result of those otherwise useful skills resulting in false positive firings, e.g. seeing patterns in clouds or storms, seeing intentionality in earthquakes.

Belief in God either aids in our survival or it does not. You have stated it indeed does. How this is so is moot to my question.
Quote:You have a serious reading comprehension problem.

I did not say that belief in god aids our survival. You need to re-read what I actually wrote until you understand it.

I asked why do atheists not get mad when they hear of a camel conserving vital resources in their humps, but get mad when they hear of homo sapiens believing in God, both of which are simply accounts of a species using what it has to help it survive.

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Go back and read what I said.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-05-2014, 07:58 PM
RE: I just need to vent
(03-05-2014 07:48 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(03-05-2014 07:01 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  What beliefs have been shown to be false by science that men have held as answers that have satisfied their needs?

The belief that sex outside marriage is wrong comes to mind Shy
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[Image: popper.jpg]

Satisfied? Tongue

Since science has no stock at all in determining what is "right" or "wrong", you will have to do better.
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