I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
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01-07-2017, 09:20 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
My take on this is predictably politically incorrect and straightforward, barring hormonal problems immobility certain drug therapies, psychiatric/addiction issues and metabolic disorders I follow my dear old grandmas axiom which was a down to earth Lancastrian saying "Where there's fat there's food" eating less and being active will solve obesity for most people
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01-07-2017, 09:21 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 07:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  The disappointing thing I've learned about weight loss is, there's no fucking short cut.

There are shortcuts. Meth and crack both work. There are other less dangerous appetite suppressants and metabolic accelerators (some diabetic drugs like Invokana which keep the kidneys from reabsorbing sugars and you piss out around 500 Kcal/day. Metformin can also help with weight loss. Everyone should be taking Metformin anyway for its life extension properties.) but long term, for the reasons you stated, raising your BMR is the only real answer. I know 2 ways to do this without supplementation - increase LBM (muscle uses more fuel for maintenance) and intermittent fasting (trick the metabolism into increasing BMR but stop before it shuts down in fasting mode and starts eating you). Fatties like us have an evolutionary advantage over the first to starve in the apocalypse because we can build muscle easier and go for long periods without eating. Try the intermittent fasting if you haven't, I usually just eat once a day but there are other ways, like only eating every other day. If you can't do this because you get hungry, you got some sorta ghrelin/leptin hormonal imbalance to rectify. Intermittent fasting will modulate them and increase insulin sensitivity. I hardly ever get hungry anymore even after a bunch of baba ghankush. Intermittent fasting and Grog lift big rock off the ground once a week dropped Girly from 280 to 200. Genetics may be responsible for my fat ass, but I can use epigenetics to dick with them.

(01-07-2017 07:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  The worst part of all of this, if your poor the only food you can afford is essentially poison, try eating a low carb diet on a budget of less than 100 dollars a month. Good luck.

Bah, if you want to go all paleo it can be done on the cheap. Tuna, sardines, and canned beans for the win for like $3/day. Might want to take a cheap multi-vitaminamin if you restrict the variety that much though. Also, Jim Morrison has proven that you can live off LSD and canned beans for months. Not sure what the cost of acid is these days though.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-07-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 09:21 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 07:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  The disappointing thing I've learned about weight loss is, there's no fucking short cut.

There are shortcuts. Meth and crack both work. There are other less dangerous appetite suppressants and metabolic accelerators (some diabetic drugs like Invokana which keep the kidneys from reabsorbing sugars and you piss out around 500 Kcal/day. Metformin can also help with weight loss. Everyone should be taking Metformin anyway for its life extension properties.) but long term, for the reasons you stated, raising your BMR is the only real answer. I know 2 ways to do this without supplementation - increase LBM (muscle uses more fuel for maintenance) and intermittent fasting (trick the metabolism into increasing BMR but stop before it shuts down in fasting mode and starts eating you). Fatties like us have an evolutionary advantage over the first to starve in the apocalypse because we can build muscle easier and go for long periods without eating. Try the intermittent fasting if you haven't, I usually just eat once a day but there are other ways, like only eating every other day. If you can't do this because you get hungry, you got some sorta ghrelin/leptin hormonal imbalance to rectify. Intermittent fasting will modulate them and increase insulin sensitivity. I hardly ever get hungry anymore even after a bunch of baba ghankush. Intermittent fasting and Grog lift big rock off the ground once a week dropped Girly from 280 to 200. Genetics may be responsible for my fat ass, but I can use epigenetics to dick with them.

(01-07-2017 07:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  The worst part of all of this, if your poor the only food you can afford is essentially poison, try eating a low carb diet on a budget of less than 100 dollars a month. Good luck.

Bah, if you want to go all paleo it can be done on the cheap. Tuna, sardines, and canned beans for the win for like $3/day. Might want to take a cheap multi-vitaminamin if you restrict the variety that much though. Also, Jim Morrison has proven that you can live off LSD and canned beans for months. Not sure what the cost of acid is these days though.

I've tried your suggestions (and countless other suggestions) and it hasn't worked but you may be onto something about the hormone imbalance (which might make your suggestion work if I fix it, because in fact I am always hungry even while I"m eating and after I'm done eating and 30 min after I'm done eating. Sometimes I can ... overpower? the hunger. Other times the hunger drives me insane and controls all my actions for a while. It's annoying)

Also... another reason I hate carbs Is I hate eating a slice of bread then being forced to sleep for an hour right after...... I did a vegan diet, I did a no carb high protein diet (didn't like that one cause it made me sweat... a lot), both of them never made my head feel like shit or make me black out (pass out, take a forced nap ect which anytime I eat carbs is the result)

Edit^ I currently float between 260-280, no matter what I do I can never seem to drop below 260

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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01-07-2017, 09:28 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
I find I feel best and usually have my weight under the best control on something like the diabetic diet I had when I was pregnant and got gestational diabetes (which required insulin shots twice a day). Low carb, but not insanely low carb, no refined sugar, an emphasis on vegetables and fruit, and eating 5-6x a day but in small amounts. Even the 4x/day blood sugar sticks were helpful because they gave me lots of information and daily targets--helpful for a Type A personality like me. I had lots of energy and not much hunger on that diet. (and it helped keep my pregnancy weight gain to 24 pounds, which I lost entirely by one month after I'd delivered)

Activity's never been a problem for me, since I enjoy exercise and have to be crazy-busy or injured to skip it. Diet's way harder because I love sugar. External motivators are very helpful to me and I don't feel bad about letting a reunion or photo shoot, etc., be the thing that gets me working on my diet.
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01-07-2017, 09:30 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 09:20 AM)adey67 Wrote:  My take on this is predictably politically incorrect and straightforward, barring hormonal problems immobility certain drug therapies, psychiatric/addiction issues and metabolic disorders I follow my dear old grandmas axiom which was a down to earth Lancastrian saying "Where there's fat there's food" eating less and being active will solve obesity for most people

The problem is that this is far too simplistic. What you eat and how you exercise are rather important. The major problem with too much exercise is too much cortisol. You need enough to trigger a physiological healing response but so much your body thinks you're running from a bear. Walking is good, sprinting is good, marathons are bad (no matter what the stupid canine tells you).

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-07-2017, 09:36 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 09:28 AM)julep Wrote:  I find I feel best and usually have my weight under the best control on something like the diabetic diet I had when I was pregnant and got gestational diabetes (which required insulin shots twice a day). Low carb, but not insanely low carb, no refined sugar, an emphasis on vegetables and fruit, and eating 5-6x a day but in small amounts. Even the 4x/day blood sugar sticks were helpful because they gave me lots of information and daily targets--helpful for a Type A personality like me. I had lots of energy and not much hunger on that diet. (and it helped keep my pregnancy weight gain to 24 pounds, which I lost entirely by one month after I'd delivered)

Activity's never been a problem for me, since I enjoy exercise and have to be crazy-busy or injured to skip it. Diet's way harder because I love sugar. External motivators are very helpful to me and I don't feel bad about letting a reunion or photo shoot, etc., be the thing that gets me working on my diet.

Activity is a pretty HUGE problem for me, thanks to my time doing stupid dangerous jobs my body is so damaged I can barely move at the best of times. LONG before I got diabetes my feet would hurt if I was standing for more than a couple of minutes, to the point I was almost always sitting down, and back pain shoulder pain knee pain (all of this was when I was still skinny which, I was mostly pretty skinny as a young adult I was prolly insulin resistant cause of the bread in my diet but I was skinny cause I worked so hard on oil rigs ect)

I think (though I can't afford one) a rowing machine would work for me, I liked those as a kid and the worst pain is my foot pain when I stand (I developed that foot pain wearing steel soul boots for a couple of years for work.... my feet never recovered)

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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01-07-2017, 09:42 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 09:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 09:28 AM)julep Wrote:  I find I feel best and usually have my weight under the best control on something like the diabetic diet I had when I was pregnant and got gestational diabetes (which required insulin shots twice a day). Low carb, but not insanely low carb, no refined sugar, an emphasis on vegetables and fruit, and eating 5-6x a day but in small amounts. Even the 4x/day blood sugar sticks were helpful because they gave me lots of information and daily targets--helpful for a Type A personality like me. I had lots of energy and not much hunger on that diet. (and it helped keep my pregnancy weight gain to 24 pounds, which I lost entirely by one month after I'd delivered)

Activity's never been a problem for me, since I enjoy exercise and have to be crazy-busy or injured to skip it. Diet's way harder because I love sugar. External motivators are very helpful to me and I don't feel bad about letting a reunion or photo shoot, etc., be the thing that gets me working on my diet.

Activity is a pretty HUGE problem for me, thanks to my time doing stupid dangerous jobs my body is so damaged I can barely move at the best of times. LONG before I got diabetes my feet would hurt if I was standing for more than a couple of minutes, to the point I was almost always sitting down, and back pain shoulder pain knee pain (all of this was when I was still skinny which, I was mostly pretty skinny as a young adult I was prolly insulin resistant cause of the bread in my diet but I was skinny cause I worked so hard on oil rigs ect)

I think (though I can't afford one) a rowing machine would work for me, I liked those as a kid and the worst pain is my foot pain when I stand (I developed that foot pain wearing steel soul boots for a couple of years for work.... my feet never recovered)

A recumbent bike might also be a good choice.
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01-07-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
A recumbent bike really helped me while I was recovering from a hyper extended knee. Now that my knee is fully mobile even if not immune to feeling sore, I'm back to a long walk with the dogs every day. I actually alternate every other day between pushing just myself aerobically half the days and then doing more of a long stroll with the wife in between.

But for me, I had to learn a lot about diet, nutrition and how to best fuel the body in order to lose weight. Indeed for weight loss, the bottom line is calories consumed. Exercise helps but since I really wanted to lose weight, increased exercise did not permit me to eat more.

I try to be very mindful about enjoying my food when I do eat, but not to eat recreationally. I used to snack a lot and used food as rewards to motivate my completion of tasks. I taught school and whenever I had a load of tests to grade or projects to read, I'd load up with a box of cookies, some candy and probably chips too. No wonder I put on weight. I probably weighted about 180 when I started teaching. When I retired 25 years later I was up to 230. I'm just under 190 now but have been trending up from a low of 182 not too long ago. My goal is to be 175. But I'm not interested in temporary measures. I've changed what and how I eat. I try to notice when I'm really hungry and I'm happy to really feel a little hungry once in a while.

My routine is to start the day with my biggest meal: one cup (cooked) of steel cut oatmeal with fresh fruit and nuts. For lunch I usually make a sandwich on two slices of Dave's thin sliced Killer Seeded bread (70 cal each) with either cashew butter, spun honey and a banana or else chicken salad, a little mustard and two pickle slices, downed with a diet soft drink. For dinner most nights we just make a big salad. But sometimes I cook us a steak with some rice and veggie. Sometimes I'll have a small glass of wine with dinner. Other times I'll just stick to the diet soft drinks. (Beer and booze is out now, too expensive calorie wise). For dessert I usually have one Mochi ice cream/rice dessert (100 calories). When we go out to dinner we always split a meal.

Good luck with your investigation and goals, Jesse.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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01-07-2017, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2017 01:30 PM by jennybee.)
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 08:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 08:14 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I consider the avoidance of added sweeteners (sugar, honey, corn syrup, agave nectar, etc., it's nutritionally all the same crap) to be one of the most significant changes a person can make to lose weight and keep it off, diabetic or not. I have some sort of dessert maybe once every week or two, and usually preceding an intense workout so I can at least capitalize on the increased protein absorbtion properties of ensuing insulin rush, but I don't believe for a second that it isn't setting me back overall, even if just a little. In my day to day life I generally treat it like poison. No soda, I drink my coffee black, no "I deserve this because of my workout." No matter how someone tries to convince themselves otherwise, the fact is every time you put refined fructose in your body you are moving further away from any fitness or weight loss related goals. Even if one chooses not to reduce carbohydrates in general, sweeteners are not a good source by any of the numerous dietary protocols regardless of what differences they might have.

While I generally agree with you here, my thing isn't so much just about weight loss. Controlling carbs is the single best way to control both blood sugar and insulin levels and to a diabetic that's a matter of life and death. Also, sugars are carbs, I should point that out so controlling sweetener is included in controlling carbs. Frankly if a diabetic person manages to control their sugar levels and insulin levels they will by default loose weight all the way down to becoming healthy again. It is a very different thing than a normal person just wanting to loose weight. I apologize if I wasn't clear on this. And I've heard estimates that close to half the US population is insulin resistant already, anyone insulin resistant is really in the same boat as someone Diabetic only, if they can fix it now they can avoid the devastation that diabetes brings.

@Jenny bee, same to your comment too ^ I don't know how much ya'll know about diabetes but blood sugar and insulin is what's killing me, not weight or um... not liking my weight. This isn't about looking pretty, this is about not dying. Even skinny I don't think I'd look pretty so that's not a goal of mine at all anyway.

Edit^ my closest childhood friend Ben, if he's still alive (he kinda stopped talking to everyone to spend what time he has left with his family) Is (or already has) dying/died from Diabetes. Now unlike me he was never insulin resistant. He had "childhood" diabetes aka type 1, that's an entirely different beast, where as my body produces insulin (in fact more so than yours does cause it has to) his body produces NO insulin and hasn't since he was a kid. It's not the same as type 2 which is what I have.

I was more responding to your choice of thread title. Also, a healthy meal plan and exercise would be good for anyone, including someone who is diabetic, no? Do you have any farmer's markets near you? We have a ton here and I buy all sorts of things for under 25 bucks. Anyway, might be something worth checking out if you're eating on the cheap.

Additionally, I wasn't advocating "getting skinny." Health and wellness should be the goal. I think if you do that, everything else just falls into place. Personally, I like to be physically strong and I like curves on me, so I don't believe in forcing myself to get "skinny." Some people are naturally skinny and that's how their bodies are. But since everyone's body is different, you are right, you definitely have to do what works best for you and your own body and get to a healthy weight that works for you.
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01-07-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: I kinda wanna talk about my being a fatass.
(01-07-2017 01:19 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 08:36 AM)JesseB Wrote:  While I generally agree with you here, my thing isn't so much just about weight loss. Controlling carbs is the single best way to control both blood sugar and insulin levels and to a diabetic that's a matter of life and death. Also, sugars are carbs, I should point that out so controlling sweetener is included in controlling carbs. Frankly if a diabetic person manages to control their sugar levels and insulin levels they will by default loose weight all the way down to becoming healthy again. It is a very different thing than a normal person just wanting to loose weight. I apologize if I wasn't clear on this. And I've heard estimates that close to half the US population is insulin resistant already, anyone insulin resistant is really in the same boat as someone Diabetic only, if they can fix it now they can avoid the devastation that diabetes brings.

@Jenny bee, same to your comment too ^ I don't know how much ya'll know about diabetes but blood sugar and insulin is what's killing me, not weight or um... not liking my weight. This isn't about looking pretty, this is about not dying. Even skinny I don't think I'd look pretty so that's not a goal of mine at all anyway.

Edit^ my closest childhood friend Ben, if he's still alive (he kinda stopped talking to everyone to spend what time he has left with his family) Is (or already has) dying/died from Diabetes. Now unlike me he was never insulin resistant. He had "childhood" diabetes aka type 1, that's an entirely different beast, where as my body produces insulin (in fact more so than yours does cause it has to) his body produces NO insulin and hasn't since he was a kid. It's not the same as type 2 which is what I have.

I was more responding to your choice of thread title. Also, a healthy meal plan and exercise would be good for anyone, including someone who is diabetic, no? Do you have any farmer's markets near you? We have a ton here and I buy all sorts of things for under 25 bucks. Anyway, might be something worth checking out if you're eating on the cheap.

Additionally, I wasn't advocating "getting skinny." Health and wellness should be the goal. I think if you do that, everything else just falls into place. Personally, I like to be physically strong and I like curves on me, so I don't believe in forcing myself to get "skinny." Some people are naturally skinny and that's how their bodies are. But since everyone's body is different, you are right, you definitely have to do what works best for you and your own body and get to a healthy weight that works for you.

Agreed

Even currently I can accomplish things that require incredible strength, agility, speed. Which can leave people... surprised that a guy as big n heavy as me can move that fast lift that much or >.> bend that much lol without breaking. I can keep up up for a bit too if I have to (I often do when I'm cutting down trees), The problem is the week after I do it cause my body falls apart and I can't get out of bed for a week lol. But if you dared me to climb to the top of a tree, I could, if you made it a race I would beat you (most likely, I've climbed a lot of trees in my life), and if you're wondering where I've been all week.... well after winning that little bet I wasn't able to move for a week lol. It's annoying cause I know what I used to be capable of, and for short periods of time I'm still capable of it.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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