"I know god doesn't exist."
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04-03-2014, 11:54 PM
Question "I know god doesn't exist."
Some atheists would scoff and say "Of course god could exist. It's just a very tiny probability. You're sounding like a religious person by saying that you know god doesn't exist."

The response would be "There is no evidence for the use of magic at any time, or for the mechanisms for magic. There's no evidence that a god has existed, currently exists, or could exist. Just as I know Doctor Who currently isn't trying to fix my computer, I know god isn't floating around."

What would be your response as the scoffing atheist? Undecided
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04-03-2014, 11:59 PM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
(04-03-2014 11:54 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  What would be your response as the scoffing atheist? Undecided

There is a difference between possibility and probability. In terms of probability, there's no reason to have a positive belief in the existence of gods. But as a freethinker who values evidence, I must remain open to the possibility that future evidence may change my mind.

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05-03-2014, 12:01 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
Strictly speaking, it depends on the god. We can prove that certain definitions of god can't exist, for example the omnibenevolent and omnipotent god that makes everything in his power to prevent human suffering clearly doesn't exists.
About more convoluted or fuzzy definitions, then yeah, we can't be certain. In the same way we can't be certain that we aren't all wizards that just ran out of mana.
Claiming certainty is logically false, but we don't leave in a logically driven world, and for some things a heuristic approach is more than legitimate, and most concepts of god are that kind of things

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05-03-2014, 12:17 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
I split the point.

I freely admit that I know there is no such thing as "God". For all practical intents and purposes I know this, and I don't equivocate on it.
But I also add, in order to be intellectually honest, I have to admit that it is impossible to say I can actually know anything for sure. So I can't actually say I know...but come on...seriously........there's no "God".

...For intellectual honesty purposes, I have to say I can't know there is no "God"...but shut the fuck of with that nonsense, there is no fucking "God"...

...
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05-03-2014, 12:48 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
(05-03-2014 12:17 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I split the point.

I freely admit that I know there is no such thing as "God". For all practical intents and purposes I know this, and I don't equivocate on it.
But I also add, in order to be intellectually honest, I have to admit that it is impossible to say I can actually know anything for sure. So I can't actually say I know...but come on...seriously........there's no "God".

...For intellectual honesty purposes, I have to say I can't know there is no "God"...but shut the fuck of with that nonsense, there is no fucking "God"...

This.

I think the core contention of this scenario is around the word "know."

In casual speech, "know" is used as a kind of marker for "knowledge held to be true beyond a reasonable doubt," or as Raptor said, for all intents and purposes.

However, if we approach the term epistemically, "know" means to declare one's self infallible on the subject. This is an impossibility; it doesn't matter how certain you are of something, humans are fallible creatures, hence one can not ever declare infallibility.

It has little to do with the concept of gods getting some special treatment over other ideas. The only honest stance to hold to from an epistemic viewpoint on anything is at least some degree of uncertainty.

However, this deep a level of epistemology is rarely ever invoked in typical conversations, day-to-day living, or psychological states (one can be certain psychologically while still uncertain epistemically). Hence I think most of the argument would be centered around different ideas about what it means to "know" something.

Either that, or as EK pointed out, the one who declares to "know" that no gods exist is confusing probability with possibility (which even then segways back into the epistemic rule I outlined).

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05-03-2014, 03:40 AM
Re: "I know god doesn't exist."
My response would be of course the doctor isn't trying to fix your computer, if he had it'd be fixed in 1 second of sonic screwdriving.

Oh.. And well I would just tell them I don't know that. I doubt the person knows on the levels I consider what knowing is which makes me not likely to even ask how they know.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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05-03-2014, 03:42 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
The correct response would be "I don't know if a God is even possible". First you must prove that a god is possible. Then you must prove that he exists. Not everything is possible you know.
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05-03-2014, 04:14 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
And then the next question for the limited gods that are logically possible, why should we worship it?
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05-03-2014, 04:23 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
(05-03-2014 04:14 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  And then the next question for the limited gods that are logically possible, why should we worship it?

I think worship is a useless concept designed by ancient primitives.
The love however should be earned. When god does something love worthy then he can be loved. So far he didn't even find time to show himself.
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05-03-2014, 04:36 AM
RE: "I know god doesn't exist."
Seriously this is getting annoying now! just how many people are there who still don't understand the fundamental difference between Agnostic atheists and Gnostic atheists?[Image: 1301705151317.png]

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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