I like shooting down Bible contradictions
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12-11-2011, 03:37 PM
I like shooting down Bible contradictions
I always get people telling me that the Bible is filled with contradictions, but I have yet to find an actual contradiction. So, if you each had to pick one alleged contradiction, which would it be? (yes, I'm aware of the big list on this site, but I can't address them all simultaneously, hence this topic)
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12-11-2011, 05:49 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(12-11-2011 03:37 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I always get people telling me that the Bible is filled with contradictions, but I have yet to find an actual contradiction. So, if you each had to pick one alleged contradiction, which would it be? (yes, I'm aware of the big list on this site, but I can't address them all simultaneously, hence this topic)

lol. Why not pick 5 that you think you've got the best argument for and go from there? The list is a good start, the only explanations/rationalizations I've seen for 99% of them are just "apologist acrobatics" that take the two ends and make up/throw together things to try and make them seem less illogical...

Of course, I'll bite. I find this one to be pretty obvious.

Quote:Ezekiel 18:20: The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
The penalty of sin is placed upon only the sinner, not the offspring.

Exodus 20:5: I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

I've already laid out the mat, let's see the acrobatics.

Better without God, and happier too.
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12-11-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Working from the prophet hypothesis, there is zero contradiction in the Bible.

As an atheist, Genesis 2:4. It's all downhill from there. Wink

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12-11-2011, 07:13 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(12-11-2011 03:37 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I always get people telling me that the Bible is filled with contradictions, but I have yet to find an actual contradiction. So, if you each had to pick one alleged contradiction, which would it be? (yes, I'm aware of the big list on this site, but I can't address them all simultaneously, hence this topic)

I'll bite too! I'll just start from the very beginning of the list on the site. You only have to read the first page of the bible to know it's utter bullshit:

Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.

The stars gave light to the earth immediately, although the closest star, Alpha Centauri, is 4.3 light years away. So the very first star light would have taken 4.3 years to reach earth. The light we see from the Andromeda Galaxy takes 2.2 million years to reach earth, which also debunks the argument that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old.

Actually you only need to read 3 verses of the bible to know it's bullshit:

Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: And there was light.

But no sun until 3 days later?... And don't give me the God-was-a-lihgt-until-he-made-the-sun-bullshit...pleaseSad
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12-11-2011, 07:17 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Pretty much covered in the TTA list of Bible Contradictions I think.

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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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12-11-2011, 07:29 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(12-11-2011 07:13 PM)Jakel Wrote:  Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: And there was light.

But no sun until 3 days later?... And don't give me the God-was-a-lihgt-until-he-made-the-sun-bullshit...pleaseSad

That's what happens when a non-prophet gets ahold of a book of prophets. That line smokes 'em all - like God. Big Grin

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12-11-2011, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2011 08:22 PM by megamaster125.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(12-11-2011 05:49 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  lol. Why not pick 5 that you think you've got the best argument for and go from there? The list is a good start, the only explanations/rationalizations I've seen for 99% of them are just "apologist acrobatics" that take the two ends and make up/throw together things to try and make them seem less illogical...

Well, now that you mention it, I am working on a website that goes through alleged contradictions. What I've found thus far is that most contradictions can be solved by simply reading the Bible and applying a bit of common sense. Most of the contradictions I see stem from taking Bible verses out of context, and when put back into context, there really is no contradiction. It would be like me pulling 2 sentences from two different places in a science textbook and placing them side-by-side, making it look like there's a contradiction.

In order for there to actually be a contradiction, there should be no way of explaining my way out of it. And I'm not going to try and use phrases like "why can't it be both?" because that isn't even good enough for me. Why would I expect it to be good enough for you. Instead of just stopping with saying it could be both, I aim to go a step further and show how it can be both.

Quote:Ezekiel 18:20: The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
The penalty of sin is placed upon only the sinner, not the offspring.

Exodus 20:5: I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

I've already laid out the mat, let's see the acrobatics.

Well, I'm going to follow the format of my website (so I can copy/paste it there later when I make a page for this). I always start by quoting the Bible verses in question, from my personal NIV Bible. I always find it a bit mischeiveous when atheists quote Bible verses at me. Wink

For this one in particular, I can see the contradiction starting to fall apart just by looking at the verses.

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
Ezekiel 18:20

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:5

The claim: Exodus says that the sin of the previous generation will get passed down to the children, who will also get punished for it. Ezekiel says that the son of the father who sins will not be punished for their father's sins.

The explaination: The entire chapter of Ezekiel 18 is about a proverb that will no longer be getting passed down. This proverb is "the fathers eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge," which is found in verse 2. This proverb is saying that the sins of the father are passed down to his children. The context of Ezekiel 18:2 is God asking why this proverb has been getting passed down.

The whole purpose of Ezekiel 18 is to say that the soul that sins in the one who will die (verse 20). This is actually consistent with what Exodus 20:5 is saying. Exodus 20:5 says, "punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me." This statement is saying that the children of the third and fourth generation also hate God. In other words, the children are sharing in the same sin. For instance, the father is worshiping a false idol (or whatever sin). The third and fourth generation is also worshiping this false idol (or whatever sin). In this case, since the third and fourth generation is practicing this sin, they will be punished because they were practicing it, not because their fathers were.

Exodus 20:5 goes on to say, "showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments," and this is consistent with Ezekiel 18:20. There is no contradiction.


(12-11-2011 06:17 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  As an atheist, Genesis 2:4. It's all downhill from there. Wink

If you don't mind sharing, what is your problem with Genesis 2:4?
(12-11-2011 07:13 PM)Jakel Wrote:  I'll bite too! I'll just start from the very beginning of the list on the site. You only have to read the first page of the bible to know it's utter bullshit:

Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.

The stars gave light to the earth immediately, although the closest star, Alpha Centauri, is 4.3 light years away. So the very first star light would have taken 4.3 years to reach earth. The light we see from the Andromeda Galaxy takes 2.2 million years to reach earth, which also debunks the argument that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old.

How we can see distant starlight is a question that I still have myself tbh. The creationist explaination is about the "one-way speed of light." I'm not going to get into that here, and I'm not sure if I fully agree with it, here's why though. I go outside at night, some time after sunset. I look up and see a few stars, of varying brightness, but certainly a lot of the stars are missing from the sky (from my personal viewpoint).

10-20 minutes later, I look up and see a lot more stars in the sky, some still missing, but far more are visible now than it was earlier. It hasn't really gotten any darker out (imo) since it was dark to begin with (I don't really want to get into varying degrees of darkness, unless the solution to this lies within that). After about an hour or so later, I can see all the stars (well, at least I wouldn't be able to tell if more are coming into view or not). The one-way speed of light's perspective would say that the starlight traveled to the earth instantaneously (again, this is the creationist answer that I'm not sure about). If that were true, then why don't I see all of the stars in the night sky at once. instead of waiting for them to pop into my view? If you have an explaination for this, I'd love to hear it.

Also, if the earth has been here for millions and billions of years, and life has been evolving for 600+ million years, then how is it the earth still has a magnetic field, when the magnetic field should have been decayed long before even 1 millions years passed?

Anyways, this topic isn't really about the Bible vs. science, or creationism vs. ...non-creationism(???). Aside from the above, I don't really wish to discuss those topic here, perhaps another time. I'll just end by saying this. In order to truely prove creationism wrong, you must first disprove Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Of course, this would entail disproving God, which is something that can't really be done. That's all I want to say about that, perhaps another time we can discuss deeper into the topic.


Quote:Actually you only need to read 3 verses of the bible to know it's bullshit:

Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: And there was light.

But no sun until 3 days later?... And don't give me the God-was-a-lihgt-until-he-made-the-sun-bullshit...pleaseSad

Well, we can conclude that the light in Genesis 1:3 is not from the sun, moon, or stars, since those weren't created until the fourth day (genesis 1:14). Of course, God being an all-powerful God, it is possible that the light in Genesis 1:3 is from some sort of temporary light-source. If it is possible for God to create, then God can also take away. Of course, no person was there at Genesis 1:3 to see exactly what this light was. The most logical conclusion I can see is that the light in Genesis 1:3 is just a temporary light that God put in place, and then later took away after creating the sun, moon, and stars, since there would no longer been a need for the temporary light when the sun could now provide light to the earth.
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12-11-2011, 08:42 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
This will be short. I will not revisit this thread after this either.

You are not here for the reasons stated.

You are an apologist.

Also you have little scientific understanding.

This makes all conversation absolutely pointless which is unfortunate because I actually enjoy having real discussions with theists who aren't playing pretend. One of our resident theists theo I enjoy conversing with usually an he is a tried and true creationist. He makes no qualms about it. He doesn't pretend that "it's all about context" because we'll we've all heard it.
We've almost all read the bible and not just one of the versions because it's where most of us came from. Most of us have seen both sides. It's te mistake apologists make. Apologists think they know how we think and think they can work around it. But they have only actually seen the one side. They only half understand what we are thinking.

Oh and light pollution.

Hope you enjoy your stay. Goodbye.

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12-11-2011, 09:02 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
To find all the flaws in the gospels, you need to read them horizontally as opposed to vertically. It's hard to find the contradictions and differences when you just read the gospels one by one. Instead, read them story by story.
For example: How many women went to Jesus' tomb and what were their names. What did they see when they got there, what did they do afterwards. The gospels all portray different stories. They don't agree on any of the details. That's why when people have tried to make them all into one gospel for simplicity it doesn't work, they contradict on the details.
bart Ehrman has made this point in a lecture he gave, which can probably be found on youtube.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

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12-11-2011, 09:53 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Let's see you shoot down any of these.

God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness

1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14

10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17

13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28

14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31

19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13

20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21


If that's not enough, there are more at : http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/j...tions.html

The definition of a contradiction is : "In classical logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. It occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical, usually opposite inversions of each other. Illustrating a general tendency in applied logic, Aristotle’s law of noncontradiction states that “One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time.”

You don't get to make up your own definition. Sorry. Cheers. Cool

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