I like shooting down Bible contradictions
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14-11-2011, 01:57 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Which concept of Yeshua's divinity is the real one ?

1. Mark : Yeshua was a human who was raised to divine status.
2. Matthew and maybe Luke : Yeshua was divine, gave it up, and became human, and then went back to being divine.
3. John : Yehua was divine, remained divine, took on a human nature while remaining divine, and then went back to being divine.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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14-11-2011, 01:58 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(13-11-2011 10:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Orignal sin is kinda a different subject entriely. Original sin is really just the nature of man to want to disobey God.

To give a practical analogy, a child that is born doesn't obey everything you say (if it did that would be kinda weird). You have to teach the child to obey you.

I don't recall mentioning original sin here. What I did refer to was "The Sin of Adam", you know indulging in the knowledge fruit. While in popular Christian myth this is equated with "the original sin" there is no consistent Christian doctrine about how these are related. The point is moot however as the doctrine is external to the Bible, the Bible is what is under discussion and at no time did I suggest leaving it to discuss original sin.

What it comes down to is this - if you go by the Genesis 3, Adam & Eve committed a sin for which not only they, but their descendants have also been punished right down to you and I if you believe the story. What did this punishment include? Well a host of things including the pain of childbirth but most significantly it really comes down to this:

"And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, an live forever" therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken." Gen 3:22-23

In other words Adam could have lived forever if he stayed in the Garden where he had access to the tree of life, so God kicked him out. Before the sin life in the Garden would have been eternal but their sin is the reason he, and by extension owing to the fact no one has been readmitted, you will have to suffer a death.

Apparently this is all wrong though. God told Ezekiel himself so you know it has to be wrong. All you have to do go back to the Garden. There won't be any flaming sword there now - God did that to Adam & Eve and you're not them. Just head on back there, start mowing down on that life fruit and don't listen to any talking snakes, simple. Well, go on...
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14-11-2011, 02:07 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 01:58 AM)Eye Sage Wrote:  
(13-11-2011 10:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Orignal sin is kinda a different subject entriely. Original sin is really just the nature of man to want to disobey God.

To give a practical analogy, a child that is born doesn't obey everything you say (if it did that would be kinda weird). You have to teach the child to obey you.

I don't recall mentioning original sin here. What I did refer to was "The Sin of Adam", you know indulging in the knowledge fruit. While in popular Christian myth this is equated with "the original sin" there is no consistent Christian doctrine about how these are related. The point is moot however as the doctrine is external to the Bible, the Bible is what is under discussion and at no time did I suggest leaving it to discuss original sin.

What it comes down to is this - if you go by the Genesis 3, Adam & Eve committed a sin for which not only they, but their descendants have also been punished right down to you and I if you believe the story. What did this punishment include? Well a host of things including the pain of childbirth but most significantly it really comes down to this:

"And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, an live forever" therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken." Gen 3:22-23

In other words Adam could have lived forever if he stayed in the Garden where he had access to the tree of life, so God kicked him out. Before the sin life in the Garden would have been eternal but their sin is the reason he, and by extension owing to the fact no one has been readmitted, you will have to suffer a death.

Apparently this is all wrong though. God told Ezekiel himself so you know it has to be wrong. All you have to do go back to the Garden. There won't be any flaming sword there now - God did that to Adam & Eve and you're not them. Just head on back there, start mowing down on that life fruit and don't listen to any talking snakes, simple. Well, go on...





Nicely put. I hadn't even thought about the original sin doctrine and how Ezekiel's repealing of the "proverb" that sons bear the iniquities of their fathers contradicts that very doctrine - either we bear the consequences of our ancestor's sin (Adam) or we don't. Ezekiel says we don't, therefore I do not have original sin. And Jesus died for nothing, except to forgive people of the sins they committed. Why God had to commit pseudo hari kari in order to forgive, I don't get, but apparently it was necessary since the all powerful God couldn't find another way... lol

Better without God, and happier too.
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14-11-2011, 03:40 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 06:13 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(12-11-2011 03:37 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I always get people telling me that the Bible is filled with contradictions, but I have yet to find an actual contradiction. So, if you each had to pick one alleged contradiction, which would it be? (yes, I'm aware of the big list on this site, but I can't address them all simultaneously, hence this topic)

You have not found any contradictions, because you are so biased that even when they are pointed out you simply ignore them.
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14-11-2011, 04:22 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
God's ways are not like our own? Which god are you referring to? Amun Rah? Allah? Shiva? Zeus? Jupiter? Oden? Apollo? Kuan-yin? Venus? Mitras? Istar? Neptune? Minerva? Sete? Rama? Quetzalcoatl? Si-Wang-Mu? Tezcatlipoca? Isis?
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14-11-2011, 06:12 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(13-11-2011 06:26 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  This thread is starting to look like the olympics.

Hehe this brought this joke to my mind:
Discussing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still a retard!Big Grin

(13-11-2011 10:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  For the first one, God is pleased vs. God is displeased, both verses are clearly taken out of context. First of all, you didn't quote what the Bible says God was pleased or displeased about. Secondly, Is it possible to be pleased at one point in time, and then displeased at another point in time? Is is possible to be happy today, and sad tomorrow? If you answered yes to either of those (psst, they're retorical questions, the answer is yes Wink ), then this is blatently not a contradiction. I'll do a more formal write-up for this later, as well as address the others.

The context is the creation of man. In genesis 1:31 God is pleased with his work, and genesis 6:6 says God has second thoughts about hes creation.

Of course people can change their minds. But we are talking about God here. He is supposed to know what he is doing, which he’s clearly not!
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14-11-2011, 09:06 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(13-11-2011 10:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(13-11-2011 08:37 PM)ddrew Wrote:  All them innocent first borns both man and beast... ..oh did I use the word innocent? I forgot they are bearing the sins of Adam. GUILTY!! Kill em' All! ... Seek and Destroy!! ...

You talk as if the oppressive slavery being imposed by the egyptians wasn't bad at all.

Actually I don't see how oppressive slavery should have been a problem in God's eyes.. I mean God LOVES slavery. He has a whole section on how to properly beat your slave.

You really are brainwashed aren't you. Damn I'm almost feeling sorry for you.. facts and evidence can be shown to you right infront of your face and your just too scared to realize the truth: There is no God. Jesus wasn't real and Budda is fat.

Ya know it's OKAY to stand up with dignity and say "We don't have all the answers yet as to our origins, but we've got a pretty good idea and we are constantly searching for more answers through science and discovery."

It's okay megamaster, I know that stuff like this hurts your head and it can be hard to handle.. I can understand where you religious people have this faith and hope of one day going to a wonderful place called heaven where the streets are gold. Now why you'd want to spend the rest of eternity kissing the ass of some all mighty dictator and oppressive slave driver is beyond me.... but that's your heaven not mine.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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14-11-2011, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 10:14 AM by megamaster125.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(13-11-2011 11:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  3. Matthew spends the entire Chapter 1, establishing the lineage of Jesus through Joseph, (the Davidic line), and then says, Joseph was NOT the father ??

I've already solved this one on my website. I'll copy/paste the page for you.

and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Matthew 1:16

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,
Luke 3:23

The Claim: Joseph had 2 different fathers. How is that possible?

The Explaination: In order to understand the matter at hand, we need to know some more things about the lineage Matthew and Luke traced. Matthew traced the lineage through Joseph, while Luke traced the lineage through Mary.

Matthew is tracing the lineage through Jeconiah, who is mentioned in Matthew 1:12. In Jeremiah 22:28-30, a prophecy is given that "none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David." (verse 30) Fortunately, Jesus was born of a virgin, which avoids this potential problem. Another thing to note is that Jeconiah comes from the line of Solomon, son of King David.

Luke on the other hand, traces the lineage through Mary. This is evidenced through the fact that Luke's lineage (Luke 3:23-37) does not mention Jeconiah at all, and the prophecy of Jeremiah 22:28-30 still stands. Now Heli came from the line of Nathan, the other son of King David. Nathan is not mentioned in Matthew's line, and Solomon was not mentioned in Luke's line. In relation to the prophecy regarding Jeconiah, Mary was not from Jeconiah's line, because Jeconiah came from the line of Solomon, whereas Mary came from the Line of Nathan.

Now to answer the question, "how can joseph have 2 fathers?" The answer from this point is quite simple. When Joseph married Mary, Heli became Joseph's father-in-law, while Jacob remains the biological father of Joseph, according to Matthew 1:16. There is no contradiction here.

Quote:7. After Paul's conversion, Acts says he immediately went to Damascus, and then Jerusalem. In Gallations he says he is not lying that he did not go to Jerusalem for three years ??

Well, without even looking up the verses, I could see how this could not be a contradiction. Paul went immediately to Damascus, but that doesn't mean he immediately went to Jerusalem. "Then he went to Jerusalem," then could easily represent 3 years later. I'd have to see the specific Bible verses to get into more detail than that.

(14-11-2011 12:22 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  3) Jacob sees God face to face (Genesis 32:30), yet John 1:18 states that "No one has ever seen God; the only God [referencing Jesus, I presume based on context], who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." In other words, the author (John) is stating that no one has seen God (the Father) and that Jesus is making him known. Yet Jacob is supposed to have seen God face to face back in Genesis, even wrestled with him.

And here I thought you weren't taking things out of context. Another one I've already answered. Yay for more copy/paste from my site.

So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
Genesis 32:30

"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20

The Claim: Jacob saw God's face and lived, and this contradicts what Exodus 33:20 says.

The Explaination: This is one of those instances of taking a Bible verse out of context. In this case, it's Genesis 32:30 that is out of context. To remedy this, let's start by reading Genesis 32:22-30.

That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."

But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." The man asked him, "What is your name?" "Jacob," he answered. Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

Jacob said, "Please tell me your name." But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
Genesis 32:22-30

Ok, there's a lot going on here, so let's start by addressing verse 24, which says, "So Jacob was left alone, and a MAN wrestled with him..." Clearly Jacob was wrestling with a man, and not God Almighty himself, because as Exodus 33:20 states, no man can see God's face and live. It is further evidenced that this is a man in verse 28, where the man says, "...you have struggled with God AND WITH MEN..."

So who was this man that was wrestling with Jacob? He did not give his name, but this much is clear. The man was sent by God to wrestle with Jacob. So in verse 30 when Jacob says he saw God face to face, what Jacob actually saw was a man that was sent by God. This is not a contradiction.
(14-11-2011 03:40 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  You have not found any contradictions, because you are so biased that even when they are pointed out you simply ignore them.

Nah, I don't ignore them, I actually research them. I have to wonder though, you guys are intelligent and like thinking critically. Did you guys do any research at all into these alleged contradictions, because a lot of them look very silly if you just open up a Bible and read it?

(14-11-2011 06:12 AM)Jakel Wrote:  The context is the creation of man. In genesis 1:31 God is pleased with his work, and genesis 6:6 says God has second thoughts about hes creation.

Of course people can change their minds. But we are talking about God here. He is supposed to know what he is doing, which he’s clearly not!

Oh, God does know what he's doing. God knew the consequences of giving man free will. Also, before the fall of Adam & Eve, God already had plans for a Savoir.

Quote:You really are brainwashed aren't you. Damn I'm almost feeling sorry for you.. facts and evidence can be shown to you right infront of your face and your just too scared to realize the truth: There is no God. Jesus wasn't real and Budda is fat.

I'm brainwashed now? I disagree. Those are facts now? I'd like to see you prove to me that God isn't real and Jesus didn't exist. Don't know much about Budda, so I'll give you that one. And please try to do more than just throw around speculation. I find doubt on its own to be very weak.

Quote:Ya know it's OKAY to stand up with dignity and say "We don't have all the answers yet as to our origins, but we've got a pretty good idea and we are constantly searching for more answers through science and discovery."

Why is it ok for you guys to say "we don't have all the answers yet," but when I say "I can't fully understand God," you cry foul?

Quote:It's okay megamaster, I know that stuff like this hurts your head and it can be hard to handle.. I can understand where you religious people have this faith and hope of one day going to a wonderful place called heaven where the streets are gold. Now why you'd want to spend the rest of eternity kissing the ass of some all mighty dictator and oppressive slave driver is beyond me.... but that's your heaven not mine.

It doesn't hurt my head. I like it when things fit together, which is why I like showing how Bible contradictions aren't really contradictions. You just can't expect me to answer all 40 of them in 5 minutes, let's be realistic. Bombarding me with stuff isn't going to change my views or anything.
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14-11-2011, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 11:06 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(13-11-2011 10:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Not really sure how you got that conclusion, given how Jesus was in Genesis 1. In fact, the old testament is all about Jesus.

Revisionist history in the making. Big Grin

Who was YHWH's first creation? Lucifer. It doesn't really matter what the prophets say - it matters what YHWH is on about. You are interpreting the prophet Paul into your own Intelligent Design. The fact that you're here conversing with atheists points to their being some intelligence in your design, but for completeness, you might wanna look to the numbers. YHWH is 4. Goes more or less like this: 0, 1, 2, 3 - which can be stated - Holy Spirit - God - Lucifer - Jesus.

Genesis begins with the prophet Moses telling backstory. (The document hypothesis is most likely correct in that prophets do not work alone. Many atheists dismiss the "whole document" - the Bible - and commit no error in this regard as YHWH is not to be contained in a book nor "idolized."

Back to the book - "Let there be light" is the beginning of creation. Lucifer is the bringer of light. If you want scientific confirmation, the early quark/gluon plasma is opaque to electromagnetic radiation (of which visible light is part), so it is "real" that creation from a modern viewpoint begins with light.

Besides, many scholars contend that Job is the oldest extant work of scripture. Lo and behold, who shows up at Job 1:7? Lucifer, as Satan. "Where you been, old man?" queries YHWH. "In the earth," replies Lucy. In the earth. In the dust - the same dust that is half of the duality of Adam.

If one is to make sense of the Bible, one must include all the variables. Religion derivative of the god of Abraham continues to fail, with war, discrimination, senseless sensationalism; because the followers of YHWH continue to downgrade Lucifer - the Lucifer that exists within all men - the Lucifer that stands up to god and asks questions. And demands answers..

Brace yourself like a man, ask; and I will answer you - proclaims YHWH in Job 38. Seems most peeps, really don't get past the first book. Wink
(14-11-2011 09:06 AM)ddrew Wrote:  There is no God. Jesus wasn't real and Budda is fat.

There seems to be some consensus that Siddhartha was actually lean. Wink
(14-11-2011 09:58 AM)megamaster125 Wrote:  So who was this man that was wrestling with Jacob? He did not give his name, but this much is clear. The man was sent by God to wrestle with Jacob. So in verse 30 when Jacob says he saw God face to face, what Jacob actually saw was a man that was sent by God. This is not a contradiction.

It is not as if "god has a face;" a more complete understanding is "one cannot comprehend the entirety of god and remain sane."

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14-11-2011, 11:38 AM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Quote:Nah, I don't ignore them, I actually research them. I have to wonder though, you guys are intelligent and like thinking critically. Did you guys do any research at all into these alleged contradictions, because a lot of them look very silly if you just open up a Bible and read it?

You cannot research the bible, as there is nothing to be learned. You can read the cryptic text, or in your case read into it whatever you want from the text. But not research.
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