I like shooting down Bible contradictions
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14-11-2011, 05:09 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 04:55 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 12:47 PM)Eye Sage Wrote:  Actually there's nothing for atheism to be accurate and correct about. Atheism isn't a belief system, it's simply a term denoting the absence of a particular kind of belief. This lack of a belief doesn't even have to mean the denial of the existence of God. Beyond this, whatever else the Atheist believes is all on them. Atheism literally has nothing to prove.

Atheism is the belief that there is no God, is it not? Then my question is very valid. How do you know this belief is correct?

Atheism is very broadly, the rejection of faith in the existence of a deity. That is not to say that there is no deity.

What do you mean by "correct"?
What is the correct thing to believe?
Though I actually don't give a rat's ass, I am just curious as to what it is that you feel I, as a non-Theist, am supposed to not have faith in.
Rolleyes

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14-11-2011, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 05:18 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 04:55 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Atheism is the belief that there is no God, is it not? Then my question is very valid. How do you know this belief is correct?

It is a question of sufficiency. Is science sufficient to explain the universe? The answer is an overwhelming "yes." You continue to mistake atheism for something it is not, although that fucking dictionary ain't helping. Tongue

Philosophy is a better guide. It is clear that theology is a subset of philosophy and thus "less" than philosophy. In this manner, theism is a subset of atheism - and thus less.

An atheist does not limit his/her understanding to a single work of literature. (Do you see the period, right there? Big Grin)
This thread is like the old Batman. Woof! Blam! Boffo! Big Grin

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14-11-2011, 05:18 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 04:55 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Wow, this thread is really exploding. I didn't intend this to be so popular. Umm, yeah, don't expect me to be able to respond to each of you and all of your comments. I also didn't intend for this topic to branch off into so many other things either.

I will take this as the brush off that I expected. I am also expecting that you will probably be posting your arguments on your website with an "Atheist tested and confirmed" seal of approval. Dodgy

(14-11-2011 04:55 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Atheism is the belief that there is no God, is it not? Then my question is very valid. How do you know this belief is correct?

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, I think your tailoring the definition to meet your needs. Many people, even atheists, will casually state this the same way- but in reality Atheism not necessarily the "belief that there is no God", but it can be better defined as "not believing in a god".

The difference is clear (hopefully) when you see it. Read this article, which I just found from a quick Google search, for hopefully more clarity on the definition.
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14-11-2011, 05:18 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 05:23 PM by megamaster125.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 03:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:00 PM)kineo Wrote:  The only answer to this is "who knows the mind of God?"
There's another atheist. That omni stuff merely leads to unprovable assumptions and indefensible positions.

And ironically enough, it verifies a multitude of Bible verses. Deuteronomy 29:29, Romans 11:33, Isaiah 55:8-9, Psalm 145:3, Job 11:7-8, Psalm 139:4-6. I love seeing Bible verses verified.

(14-11-2011 04:31 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  That's BS. Here's why:

The verse clearly states “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.” He is making a claim that he saw God. That claim is not invalidated by the context or clarified that he was speaking about someone/something else.

Saying he has struggled WITH GOD and with men furthers my point, not yours. While it says he wrestled with a "man", that man was unknown to Jacob at the time, then "touched his hip" to dislocate it (seems something beyond mere mortal wrestling techniques). It makes literary sense that the author would use "man" in that context because it is what Jacob thought he was wrestling with, and then have Jacob later reveal that it was God instead, when he states that he saw God face to face.

Let's use logic for a moment here. If Jacob actually got into a battle with an almighty, all-powerful God, would he even survive 2 seconds, let alone survive through the night? Of course not. And furthermore, Jacob struggled with God AND WITH MEN. All that proves is that the man Jacob wrestled with was sent by God.

Furthermore, "face to face" is just an expression, and a rather simple one at that. Simpletons don't get tripped up by that phrase, but yet a group of intelligent people such as yourself do? I could say I was face to face with the blizzard. Does that mean the blizzard had a literal face and I saw it? I would certainly hope you wouldn't take it like that.

Quote:It is clear that what the story is trying to convey is that Jacob wrestled with an unknown being and won, then later realized it was God that he was wrestling with.

This idea doesn't even make sense. If it was unkown to Jacob who he was wrestling with at the time, how would Jacob later know that it was God? Sounds like you're trying to pull some magical hokus pocus on me, which I know you atheists don't believe in.

Quote:It is simply forcing your pre-conceived notion onto the text to make it say or not say what you like. Stating that the verse says WITH MEN too doesn't mean that he didn't struggle with God. Nowhere does it say that God sent a man to struggle with Jacob. That isn't even suggested by the context.

The Bible I'm readed starts out by saying Jacob wrestled with a man, it doesn't say a man and God. I have every logical reason to believe the man Jacob wrestled with was sent by God. As for touching the hip, yeah, I'm pretty sure you can dislodge someone's hip, and that would require touching it. Obviously it wouldn't be a gentle sort of touching like when a boy and girl hold hands walking down the street. And if you want to start trying to use magic hokus pocus against me, I can do that too and say the man was given some sort of divine power and authority from God, hence wrestling with God and with men.

(14-11-2011 05:16 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It is a question of sufficiency. Is science sufficient to explain the universe? The answer is an overwhelming "yes."

I disagree. If science was suffient to explaining everything, then all those scientific theories wouldn't always be changing. I'd rather put my faith in the unchanging Word of God than some science textbooks that change every year.

Quote:An atheist does not limit his/her understanding to a single work of literature. (Do you see the period, right there?

Good thing the Bible isn't a single book then, it's a collection of books.
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14-11-2011, 05:23 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 05:27 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 05:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:00 PM)kineo Wrote:  The only answer to this is "who knows the mind of God?"
There's another atheist. That omni stuff merely leads to unprovable assumptions and indefensible positions.

And ironically enough, it verifies a multitude of Bible verses. Deuteronomy 29:29, Romans 11:33, Isaiah 55:8-9, Psalm 145:3, Job 11:7-8, Psalm 139:4-6. I love seeing Bible verses verified.
I'm surprised you can see anything, all them black eyes you got. Big Grin

Ya got spunk, kid! Get back in there!

(14-11-2011 05:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Good thing the Bible isn't a single book then, it's a collection of books.
Bible? From the Greek, meaning library? I know yer not talking to me. Tongue

(14-11-2011 05:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I disagree. If science was suffient to explaining everything, then all those scientific theories wouldn't always be changing. I'd rather put my faith in the unchanging Word of God than some science textbooks that change every year.

Unchanging, he says!Big Grin

Pretty feisty, for a Canaanite. Tongue

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14-11-2011, 05:31 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 05:35 PM by ddrew.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Hey Megabraindead guy.... whatever yer name is...

I've got a question for you.. no no.. get over yer feelings gettin hurt cause I'm referring to you as brainwashed.. now pay close attention to this next question..

Now before I ask let us make some things clear before I ask it.
One of the most powerful things that Christians have is the power of prayer..
The bible even says that those that pray "believing" will have their prayers answered.

Okay now ... hundreds of thousands of people every day pray for the sick.. the wounded.. the diseased... the paralized and so on... and many religions throughout the world claim that through prayer so and so was healed!.. A miracle has happened through the power of prayer.

Why? OH WHY? Does God never answer the prayers of amputee's? Hrmm?? There is no recorded case of an amputee anywhere in the world ever of any person having their limb's regrow back through prayer.

Where's Gods divine justice in that? OH wait sorry I forgot to take the braindead / washed point of view and just say "It's God's will that they are amputees"

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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14-11-2011, 05:34 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
Quote:I disagree. If science was suffient to explaining everything, then all those scientific theories wouldn't always be changing. I'd rather put my faith in the unchanging Word of God than some science textbooks that change every year.
A couple things:

- Those same 'changing theories' of science are the same technologies that enable you to write this topic on the internet, using the computer & electricity (and so on) that science brought into the world.

- Your exact point is what works against you: The validity in science is the fact that it changes all the time when a better theory comes along. This is the whole point of science. It does NOT disprove the theories. Where as religion comes from a 2000 year old book with biased unreliable sources.

- Good luck telling god to post your message on the internet.

As much as I hate to say it - it really sounds like you are not up for logical reasoning. You are knee deep in your religion disabling you from seeing the other side. I suggest you do some deep scientific reading. Nature can be so beautiful that not knowing how it works makes you want to think that it's been created.

Good luck.
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14-11-2011, 05:34 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 05:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:00 PM)kineo Wrote:  The only answer to this is "who knows the mind of God?"
There's another atheist. That omni stuff merely leads to unprovable assumptions and indefensible positions.

And ironically enough, it verifies a multitude of Bible verses. Deuteronomy 29:29, Romans 11:33, Isaiah 55:8-9, Psalm 145:3, Job 11:7-8, Psalm 139:4-6. I love seeing Bible verses verified.

That's exactly the point, megamaster125. God expects unquestioning faithfulness. Yet even after having read what I posted, you support that very same god and look at this as a good thing. That God, having created questioning beings he then turns to his creation and demands that no questions be asked?! From me you will get a resounding NO. I will not unquestioningly follow this god who claims omniscience and yet who made this world. Your verses highlight the arrogance and malignancy of this god. We are to believe in and love and worship a god who has made us, yet created a world where evidence of him is not only hidden, but he also gives us a Bible which contradicts with the evidence of the natural world he himself created? No, the more likely answer is that he simply does not exist. Like the gods of the Greeks, the Romans, and all other deities too numerous to list- Yaweh does not exist.
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14-11-2011, 05:35 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 05:41 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 09:58 AM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Why is it ok for you guys to say "we don't have all the answers yet," but when I say "I can't fully understand God," you cry foul?

I just saw this and wanted to comment on it.

Why is it not OK for you me to say "I can't fully understand God"?

The simple answer to your question is that your statement makes a false premise, god exists. In other words, you cannot ask questions or make statements about god if there is no evidence he exists.

UNLESS you want to admit the character is fictional, in which case you can make up any question/statement you wish, but it will only be relevant within that fictional realm.


"I can't fully understand Black Holes"?
Premise: Black holes exist. True
Statement: I cannot fully understand black holes. True

"I can't fully understand god"?
Premise: god exist. Unknown
Statement: I cannot fully understand god(who may or may not exist). Unknown
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14-11-2011, 05:40 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 05:43 PM by Glaucus.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 04:55 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
Quote:Why doesn't god destroy Satan?

It's questions like this that make me doubt atheists that say they've read the Bible, because if you've read the Bible, then you know (or should know) the ending.

I know the ending, I was once Christian. But what is he waiting for? Would you address the rest of my post? If you are going to use this passive aggressive tone as you ignore the meat of our arguments, you won't get very far.

It's your (not just you, but all apologists) avoidance of the argument that helps free people from religion. They're tired of your religious dogmas and poor understanding of science, and that's why people are leaving the faith in droves.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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