I like shooting down Bible contradictions
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14-11-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:12 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
Quote: Quote:Why? OH WHY? Does God never answer the prayers of amputee's? Hrmm?? There is no recorded case of an amputee anywhere in the world ever of any person having their limb's regrow back through prayer.

Obviously because you cannot pray properly with just one hand!

I don't think you even know what praying really is. You don't need hands to pray.

Well, I think I'm almost done here.
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14-11-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 05:18 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 03:00 PM)kineo Wrote:  The only answer to this is "who knows the mind of God?"
There's another atheist. That omni stuff merely leads to unprovable assumptions and indefensible positions.

And ironically enough, it verifies a multitude of Bible verses. Deuteronomy 29:29, Romans 11:33, Isaiah 55:8-9, Psalm 145:3, Job 11:7-8, Psalm 139:4-6. I love seeing Bible verses verified.

(14-11-2011 04:31 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  That's BS. Here's why:

The verse clearly states “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.” He is making a claim that he saw God. That claim is not invalidated by the context or clarified that he was speaking about someone/something else.

Saying he has struggled WITH GOD and with men furthers my point, not yours. While it says he wrestled with a "man", that man was unknown to Jacob at the time, then "touched his hip" to dislocate it (seems something beyond mere mortal wrestling techniques). It makes literary sense that the author would use "man" in that context because it is what Jacob thought he was wrestling with, and then have Jacob later reveal that it was God instead, when he states that he saw God face to face.

Let's use logic for a moment here. If Jacob actually got into a battle with an almighty, all-powerful God, would he even survive 2 seconds, let alone survive through the night? Of course not. And furthermore, Jacob struggled with God AND WITH MEN. All that proves is that the man Jacob wrestled with was sent by God.

Easily, if God decided to "let him win" and not kill him. Like a dad wrestling with his kids, the dad can easily kill the kids, but will instead let the kids "win". The "struggled with God and men" isn't proof that the man was sent by God, it's proof that Jacob struggled with men and struggled with God. Not hard to understand.

Furthermore, "face to face" is just an expression, and a rather simple one at that. Simpletons don't get tripped up by that phrase, but yet a group of intelligent people such as yourself do? I could say I was face to face with the blizzard. Does that mean the blizzard had a literal face and I saw it? I would certainly hope you wouldn't take it like that.

An expression that conveys closeness, direct contact. If you are face to face with a blizzard, you are close to the blizzard and in contact with it. In fact, you see it. Again, you seem to be forcing a (bad) interpretation in order to fit your view. We understand expressions, apparently you don't...

Quote:It is clear that what the story is trying to convey is that Jacob wrestled with an unknown being and won, then later realized it was God that he was wrestling with.

This idea doesn't even make sense. If it was unkown to Jacob who he was wrestling with at the time, how would Jacob later know that it was God? Sounds like you're trying to pull some magical hokus pocus on me, which I know you atheists don't believe in.

Easy. Either God let him know at the end or Jacob figured it out when his opponent dislocated his hip by magical touch. Still not hard to comprehend. If I'm wrestling with a guy and I'm winning, then all the sudden he just taps me on the hip and it's dislocated, I'm gonna wonder what's up. Presuming the story and context was real, I'd likely come to the logical conclusion that the being was indeed God (presumption - in this situation I both believe God exists and that he interacts with mankind).

Quote:It is simply forcing your pre-conceived notion onto the text to make it say or not say what you like. Stating that the verse says WITH MEN too doesn't mean that he didn't struggle with God. Nowhere does it say that God sent a man to struggle with Jacob. That isn't even suggested by the context.

The Bible I'm readed starts out by saying Jacob wrestled with a man, it doesn't say a man and God. I have every logical reason to believe the man Jacob wrestled with was sent by God. As for touching the hip, yeah, I'm pretty sure you can dislodge someone's hip, and that would require touching it. Obviously it wouldn't be a gentle sort of touching like when a boy and girl hold hands walking down the street. And if you want to start trying to use magic hokus pocus against me, I can do that too and say the man was given some sort of divine power and authority from God, hence wrestling with God and with men.

It also states that Jacob saw God, after telling the story about him wrestling. I've already given a good, logical reason why the author only used "man" at first. You're arguing that because it says Jacob wrestled with God and man, he didn't wrestle with God, but only with man. That doesn't make any sense and is inconsistent with what the passage states. If I state that I wrestled with my brother and my cousin, does that mean that I only wrestled with my cousin? That my brother sent my cousin to wrestle with me?

You can't dislodge a hip without serious effort, certainly not anything that could be sanely referred to as "touching" in anything besides the sense that two bodies are in contact. Again, you're forcing a square peg into a round hole in order to convince yourself that the peg is square. Trying to say I'm using "hokus pokus" is just a poor attempt at deflecting from your inability to make sense of it and trying to make me sound like I'm proposing something supernatural. Let's be clear here, I don't believe the story is true at all. It's a fictional story, no more. The story is proposing the supernatural, not I.



(14-11-2011 05:16 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It is a question of sufficiency. Is science sufficient to explain the universe? The answer is an overwhelming "yes."

I disagree. If science was suffient to explaining everything, then all those scientific theories wouldn't always be changing. I'd rather put my faith in the unchanging Word of God than some science textbooks that change every year.

lawl. The fact that science changes is because it is getting better. Our understanding of the natural world's processes improves over time and the text books are updated to reflect that. The Bible was written when people had little to no understanding of natural processes and instead they put together their explanation for how things were. It's wrong and always will be, because it doesn't change. That is a very ignorant stance, by the very definition of the word.

Science has been explaining more and more over time (hence the change), while the Bible just makes a static attempt at explaining things (God did it is always the answer) and never gets updated when our understanding improves.


Quote:An atheist does not limit his/her understanding to a single work of literature. (Do you see the period, right there?

Good thing the Bible isn't a single book then, it's a collection of books.

tomayto, tomahto. It can be considered one literary work and you are proposing that it has no contradictions, so obviously only one point of view will be portrayed. Alternative points of view will contradict each other (being different and all), so regardless, you aren't seeing the full body of evidence.

Better without God, and happier too.
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14-11-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:08 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Well, I don't see myself being here much longer.

Don't threaten me with a good time. Keep duking it out. Lay down and take a beating. Choice is yours.

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14-11-2011, 06:23 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:17 PM)Adaptive Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:08 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I've seen the other side, and I've been there before. I have no desire to abandon everything I have as a Christian in favor of atheism that offers nothing.
What does god offer you then? Heaven in the afterlife?

Things I have as a Christian that atheists don't have (and this isn't meant to be an all-inclusive list either).

I have:

1. God in my life.
2. God's plan for good things in my life.
3. Forgiveness of sins.
4. A level of love, joy, and peace that can't be attained anywhere else.
5. A personal relationship with God.
6. Spiritual gifts.
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14-11-2011, 06:35 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:23 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:17 PM)Adaptive Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:08 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I've seen the other side, and I've been there before. I have no desire to abandon everything I have as a Christian in favor of atheism that offers nothing.
What does god offer you then? Heaven in the afterlife?

Things I have as a Christian that atheists don't have (and this isn't meant to be an all-inclusive list either).

I have:

1. God in my life.
2. God's plan for good things in my life.
3. Forgiveness of sins.
4. A level of love, joy, and peace that can't be attained anywhere else.
5. A personal relationship with God.
6. Spiritual gifts.

Number two - that's the one that's gotta go. You'll see. Wink

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14-11-2011, 06:35 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 06:38 PM by megamaster125.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:17 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  lawl. The fact that science changes is because it is getting better. Our understanding of the natural world's processes improves over time and the text books are updated to reflect that. The Bible was written when people had little to no understanding of natural processes and instead they put together their explanation for how things were.

And yet somehow they knew the earth was floating in space and not being held up by some elephant or turtle. (Job 26:7, and ironically enough Job is the oldest written book of the Bible.) If you don't believe Job 26:7, just look at photographs of the earth from space.

Quote:It's wrong and always will be, because it doesn't change. That is a very ignorant stance, by the very definition of the word.

It's wrong that the earth is floating in space and not being held up by an elephant or turtle? That doesn't make sense.


(14-11-2011 06:17 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:08 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Well, I don't see myself being here much longer.

Don't threaten me with a good time. Keep duking it out. Lay down and take a beating. Choice is yours.

Oh how cute, the atheist thinks he wins because 20 some people bombard a single christian with dozens of posts, lots of info and words, insults toward christian beliefs, and thinks they're right because the christian can't/doesn't address every single line and comment. That was a good laugh, but here's the punchline. I'm still Christian, and I am no more drifting towards atheism now than I was before I came to this site. Isn't that hilarious?

...Well, I thought it was funny. Wink
(14-11-2011 06:35 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:23 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Things I have as a Christian that atheists don't have (and this isn't meant to be an all-inclusive list either).

I have:

1. God in my life.
2. God's plan for good things in my life.
3. Forgiveness of sins.
4. A level of love, joy, and peace that can't be attained anywhere else.
5. A personal relationship with God.
6. Spiritual gifts.

Number two - that's the one that's gotta go. You'll see. Wink

Wait, why does that have to go? I've already seen some of the good things in God's plans for my life as they unfolded. For instance, I'm no longer afraid to hug my friends, which would not have happened if it weren't for God.
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14-11-2011, 06:47 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 06:51 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:23 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:17 PM)Adaptive Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:08 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  I've seen the other side, and I've been there before. I have no desire to abandon everything I have as a Christian in favor of atheism that offers nothing.
What does god offer you then? Heaven in the afterlife?

Things I have as a Christian that atheists don't have (and this isn't meant to be an all-inclusive list either).

I have:

1. God in my life.
2. God's plan for good things in my life.
3. Forgiveness of sins.
4. A level of love, joy, and peace that can't be attained anywhere else.
5. A personal relationship with God.
6. Spiritual gifts.

I gladly forfeit all that junk, even if your god existed, for 10% of my income and Sundays off.
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14-11-2011, 06:49 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:35 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Wait, why does that have to go? I've already seen some of the good things in God's plans for my life as they unfolded. For instance, I'm no longer afraid to hug my friends, which would not have happened if it weren't for God.

A tad off topic but why were you afraid to hug your friends? if it's not to personal to ask.

And couldn't the fact you are no longer afraid to do that speak more to your own ability to overcome an obstacle rather than the interference of an outside force?

Behold the power of the force!
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14-11-2011, 06:52 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:35 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  That was a good laugh, but here's the punchline. I'm still Christian, and I am no more drifting towards atheism now than I was before I came to this site. Isn't that hilarious?

...Well, I thought it was funny. Wink

That's what I wanna hear!




The problem with two is causality and a lack of an extant future. Assumption of extant future leads to error like "omni' and contradiction like "evil," also the modification of expectation into resultant.

Pre-determination is just bad joss.

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14-11-2011, 06:55 PM
RE: I like shooting down Bible contradictions
(14-11-2011 06:49 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 06:35 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  Wait, why does that have to go? I've already seen some of the good things in God's plans for my life as they unfolded. For instance, I'm no longer afraid to hug my friends, which would not have happened if it weren't for God.

A tad off topic but why were you afraid to hug your friends? if it's not to personal to ask.

And couldn't the fact you are no longer afraid to do that speak more to your own ability to overcome an obstacle rather than the interference of an outside force?

By friends, he is probably talking about random people in church or on the street he hands a pamphlet to. I do not really like random people coming up and hugging me, unless she is hot, then I don't mind.

On a more serious note I am thinking of buying a new mouse, what do you guys think of,
Corsair Vengeance M90
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