I'll pray for you...
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08-08-2012, 02:14 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 12:05 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 11:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, atheism is a lack of belief. Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge.

A lack of belief is not a belief, ergo not a belief system.

be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief )

I refer you good sir, to the dictionary. Unless your saying that you lack confidence in the beliefs you hold that lead you to agnostic or atheist or agnostic athiest or whatever you self label yourself as.

agnostism/atheism clearly fit neatly into the above definition.

No, not holding a belief does not fit neatly into the definition of belief.
You show an eagerness to ignore the meaning of words. I can only assume that you want to call atheism a belief system to drag it down to the level of "only a belief system" so that your belief system doesn't look so ridiculous.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-08-2012, 04:17 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 12:39 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 12:05 PM)Humakt Wrote:  be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief )

I refer you good sir, to the dictionary. Unless your saying that you lack confidence in the beliefs you hold that lead you to agnostic or atheist or agnostic athiest or whatever you self label yourself as.

agnostism/atheism clearly fit neatly into the above definition.

Belief perseverance - a tendency or unwillingness to admit that their foundational premises are incorrect even when shown convincing evidence to the contrary. Belief Perseverance is this tendency to reject convincing proof and become even more tenaciously held when the belief has been publicly announced to others.


*shrugs* Shocking *and leaves*

Your basic premis is flawed if your "evidence" was convincing Id be convinced.

As your a American and the majority of your country is convinced by christianity youd seem to guild of this however. Of course the idea that popular views = correct view is a tad simple.

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08-08-2012, 04:22 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 02:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 12:05 PM)Humakt Wrote:  be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief )

I refer you good sir, to the dictionary. Unless your saying that you lack confidence in the beliefs you hold that lead you to agnostic or atheist or agnostic athiest or whatever you self label yourself as.

agnostism/atheism clearly fit neatly into the above definition.

No, not holding a belief does not fit neatly into the definition of belief.
You show an eagerness to ignore the meaning of words. I can only assume that you want to call atheism a belief system to drag it down to the level of "only a belief system" so that your belief system doesn't look so ridiculous.

No, I dont call atheism a belief system, I call it a belief. I call agnostic atheism a belief system because it fits into the definition of a belief system as I clearly said in my post. Which you clearly have not read. As to only a belief system and the idea that all belief systems are ridiculous - thats just crazy talk. Also you can do more than assume, you can read what I actually say then you dont need to rely on assumprtions and get it wrong.

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08-08-2012, 04:32 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2012 04:36 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 04:22 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 02:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, not holding a belief does not fit neatly into the definition of belief.
You show an eagerness to ignore the meaning of words. I can only assume that you want to call atheism a belief system to drag it down to the level of "only a belief system" so that your belief system doesn't look so ridiculous.

No, I dont call atheism a belief system, I call it a belief. I call agnostic atheism a belief system because it fits into the definition of a belief system as I clearly said in my post. Which you clearly have not read. As to only a belief system and the idea that all belief systems are ridiculous - thats just crazy talk. Also you can do more than assume, you can read what I actually say then you dont need to rely on assumprtions and get it wrong.

Agnostic atheism is not a belief system. Agnostic atheism is the disbelief in God, with while admitting that there is not evidence for either side. It should be the intrinsic position the majority of people have when dealing with a subject that has no evidence.

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08-08-2012, 04:43 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 04:22 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 02:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, not holding a belief does not fit neatly into the definition of belief.
You show an eagerness to ignore the meaning of words. I can only assume that you want to call atheism a belief system to drag it down to the level of "only a belief system" so that your belief system doesn't look so ridiculous.

No, I dont call atheism a belief system, I call it a belief. I call agnostic atheism a belief system because it fits into the definition of a belief system as I clearly said in my post. Which you clearly have not read. As to only a belief system and the idea that all belief systems are ridiculous - thats just crazy talk. Also you can do more than assume, you can read what I actually say then you dont need to rely on assumprtions and get it wrong.

Last time, non-belief is not a belief, and agnostic atheism is not a belief.

We're done here. Your willful disregard of the meanings of words is just annoying.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-08-2012, 05:15 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 04:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 04:22 PM)Humakt Wrote:  No, I dont call atheism a belief system, I call it a belief. I call agnostic atheism a belief system because it fits into the definition of a belief system as I clearly said in my post. Which you clearly have not read. As to only a belief system and the idea that all belief systems are ridiculous - thats just crazy talk. Also you can do more than assume, you can read what I actually say then you dont need to rely on assumprtions and get it wrong.

Last time, non-belief is not a belief, and agnostic atheism is not a belief.

We're done here. Your willful disregard of the meanings of words is just annoying.

Annoying is right, once more, rather than just assert Im right I'll repost again what these words mean. Then you can refute the dictionary.

ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)
n.
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic

a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism?s=t

be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief

Main Entry: belief system
Part of Speech: n
Definition: faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/b...system?s=t

Just to forstall everyone going spastic over the word faith.
faith
[feyth] Show IPA
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith?s=t

The dictionary has no defintion of agnostic atheist specifically.

Enjoy.

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08-08-2012, 05:25 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
You are picking and choosing in the dictionary.

Quote:ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)
n.
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

Quote:a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Quote:be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.

2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.


Quote: [feyth] Show IPA
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

Nice job in getting a degree in semantic fallacy.

Quote:Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who does believe that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known.[1][2][3]

Then use something else other than a dictionary.

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08-08-2012, 05:25 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 05:15 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 04:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  Last time, non-belief is not a belief, and agnostic atheism is not a belief.

We're done here. Your willful disregard of the meanings of words is just annoying.

Annoying is right, once more, rather than just assert Im right I'll repost again what these words mean. Then you can refute the dictionary.

ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)
n.
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic

a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism?s=t

be·lief
[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief

Main Entry: belief system
Part of Speech: n
Definition: faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/b...system?s=t

Just to forstall everyone going spastic over the word faith.
faith
[feyth] Show IPA
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith?s=t

The dictionary has no defintion of agnostic atheist specifically.

Enjoy.

You cherry-pick the definitions to suit your beliefs, ignoring the definition of lack of belief.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-08-2012, 06:40 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
Humakt - I'll pray for you.

I think that's the only way you're going to win this debate - a certified miracle.

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08-08-2012, 07:05 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(08-08-2012 06:40 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Humakt - I'll pray for you.

I think that's the only way you're going to win this debate - a certified miracle.

Its not about winning, least ways Im not trying to win, debate is an exchange. If there is winning it is in learning or being entertained.

Thanks all the same.

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