I'll pray for you...
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10-08-2012, 02:59 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 12:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(10-08-2012 11:15 AM)Humakt Wrote:  As you say these are all made up, what method would you suggest I follow to find this evidence. Never mind, you assert theyre made up, but as youve clearly stated theyre made up, I'll take your word for it that these then are examples of, and not actual delusions, admittedly this false somewhat short of proper evidence, you could be lying, but for the sake of arguement I'll believe you.

Ahhh What ??

I provided you with examples of delusions and according to you in order for them to be delusions, contrary evidence must be able to be provided. I'm asking you again to provide contrary evidence to prove by your own standards that these are delusions.

I have, you provided me hypotheticals then asked me to prove they're not delusions.

OK they're not delusions they are hypothetical examples of delusions.

If for the sake of argument though, they were not hypotheticals. As I said in an earlier post Im not qualified to judge, but as a lay opinion each of them would certainly fit within the definition of delusion. But as a diagnosis is required to confirm them thats as far as I can go.

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10-08-2012, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2012 07:15 PM by Rahn127.)
RE: I'll pray for you...
It is immaterial if the examples I gave are hypothetical or not. I really don't understand why you keep harping on that or is it simply your way of avoiding answering the question.
All of this started because you claimed that a belief in a god wasn't delusional because contrary evidence needed to be provided to fit your definition you found on wikipedia.

Now you're ok with the delusion of someone who believes they themselves are a god, specifically, Thor without providing any contrary evidence.

So which is it ?

Believing that you are a god is a delusion but believing that there is a god isn't ?
I believe that's called special pleading.

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10-08-2012, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2012 08:38 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: I'll pray for you...

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10-08-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 05:10 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  It is immaterial if the examples I gave are hypothetical or not. I really don't understand why you keep harping on that or is it simply your way of avoiding answering the question.
All of this started because you claimed that a belief in a god wasn't delusional because contrary evidence needed to be provided to fit your definition you found on wikipedia.

Now you're ok with the delusion of someone who believes they themselves are a god, specifically, Thor without providing any contrary evidence.

So which is it ?

Believing that you are a god is a delusion but believing that there is a god isn't ?
I believe that's called special pleading.

You may find it immaterial, I dont, none the less I state in my second sentence

"If for the sake of argument though, they were not hypotheticals. As I said in an earlier post Im not qualified to judge, but as a lay opinion each of them would certainly fit within the definition of delusion. But as a diagnosis is required to confirm them thats as far as I can go. "

Which is not avoiding the question, it answers it. Maybe if youd read past the 1st sentence before replying you could save me the time typin this again.

Also, the contary evidence is not what I site to fit the Wiki definition, the wiki defintion explictity exclude religious belief from delusionary behaviour. Evidence isnt nessecary its explictly not aplicable.

"As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception."

Also, unless you wanna say the religious are actually ill, the wiki definition would disqualify religious belief on these grounds also. "Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological (the result of an illness or illness process)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

It is in fact, the dictionary.com ( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional ) that has the reference to contary evidence:

"2.
Psychiatry . maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness: He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him. "

As for your point concering Thor, being Thor, believing Thor exists. Thats well made, I'll need to thinnk about that some. Not in a way I suspect you'll like though, the question I need to about in that case is believing yourself to be Thor a "religious" issue, if so then I was wrong to state the opinion in my lay capacity that it fits the defintion.

But, you seem to want me to state a definitive, so I'll restate the same sefintive I given you on several occasions now, I am unqualified to make such a determination, as to my not a Doctor. However, as a my opinion, which is far from definitive is with thanks to your point above the example including Thor something I need to think over before I form an opinion, but the other certainly seem like delusionary beliefs. That being said, they could just be wrong, lies, doctrinal or one of the exclusive states which would exclude them. Short of a case with the exact paticulars of the belief, thats as definitive as your gonna get at least from me. If you want a more definitve yes no style answer I suggest you ask someone whos prepared to state there opinions as facts, or consult a mental health proffesional.

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10-08-2012, 09:22 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
That works for me - Thank you

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10-08-2012, 09:34 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2012 09:41 PM by Humakt.)
RE: I'll pray for you...

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10-08-2012, 09:35 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 09:22 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  That works for me - Thank you

OK, good glad we got there. Smile

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10-08-2012, 11:16 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 09:35 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(10-08-2012 09:22 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  That works for me - Thank you

OK, good glad we got there. Smile

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10-08-2012, 11:19 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 11:16 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(10-08-2012 09:35 PM)Humakt Wrote:  OK, good glad we got there. Smile

Agnostic atheism is not a belief system. Laughat

Was'nt talking to you, and I heard you the first time.

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10-08-2012, 11:22 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 11:19 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(10-08-2012 11:16 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Agnostic atheism is not a belief system. Laughat

Was'nt talking to you, and I heard you the first time.

That's why they have PM's

Also, you meant to say "I read it the first time."

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