I'll pray for you...
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11-08-2012, 12:03 AM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(10-08-2012 11:22 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(10-08-2012 11:19 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Was'nt talking to you, and I heard you the first time.

That's why they have PM's

Also, you meant to say "I read it the first time."

Can I just take it as read, that you'll contradict what ever I say, sorry write, and save you the time of posting your smart alec responces and me the time wasted in reading them.

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11-08-2012, 06:27 AM
RE: I'll pray for you...
Wow, I didn't know you were this ignorant.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  I derailed it, I did no such thing, my post concerning delusion was in direct rebuttal to Vosur's post ( http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid145998 ) which in itself is in reply to Kingschosens mention of delusion.

You persisted, therefore you derailed it.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  It is a posative claim because you posativly assert something as to the existence of God.

No one positively asserts anything. Agnostic atheism is a negative claim. "I disbelieve in this because of the lack of evidence," is a negative claim. The burden of proof is on the theist.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  http://www.wikisynergy.com/~wikisyne/w/i...skepticism

Looks like a reliable proof you got right thar.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Definition: A "positive" claim is a claim about reality, and can be about what is not real.

First of all, when you are arguing a point like this, you look up the definition of "negative claim". Second of all, I do not know how many times you can be wrong with a dictionary in one debate. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. Do work every once in a while.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Seems, yet again I can site a source to back up my assertion, whilst yet again you can just assert without attribution. Not gonna say your wrong, all youve done is state an opinion, you can hold any opinion you want its niether right or wrong. But, then opinion are like assholes everyone has one. In this case your opinion has you.

I now know how unobservant and ignorant you really are. I have backed up my posts with the same evidence you have, just under the correct context. I have, additionally, supported my claims several times, when you have not.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  As for your gnostic belief being scientific, for it to valid it must be based on evidence. Very well then you have evidence pertaining to gods existence, present it and shut me up, if not, your just talkin out your ass. Your certainly right to say there is no supporting evidence to the claim that god exists, but unless you have evidence to support the claim he doesnt you cant make that claim, all you can say is you dont know. In other words be agnostic on the question.

I said my agnostic belief is based on science, not my gnostic belief. However, my gnostic belief is also based on the heavy scientific scrutiny applied to the Bible and religious claims. You clearly do not know what agnostic and gnostic means.

There is no evidence to support either side when it comes to a deistic deity, therefore the logical position is agnostic atheism. When it comes to a Christian deity, for example, there is mounds of contradictory evidence towards it. Therefore, gnostic atheism is the logical position.

(10-08-2012 09:34 PM)Humakt Wrote:  As to the rest of the your wrongs and other impolite, disrespectful stuff.

Go fuck self.

You mean the replies to your impoliteness? Jokes on you though, I already masturbated.

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11-08-2012, 08:27 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2012 08:43 AM by Question.)
RE: I'll pray for you...
I understand on a general use Praying is a nice thing, it's meant to help, and comfort someone.

However, it doesn't really help that much. (Some would say it helps someone focuses, however I say if you put down that god damn cellphone and think about something you'll have the same effect.) Praying is used at least in my opinion to tell people they are doing something, when they are not.
A family prays for their family member in the war, to survive but they are only greeted with a body bag.
A football player prays for him to win a game and he wins.
There are many options.
1. God is real and he's selective about what he chooses /God is real but he doesn't answer every prayer
2. God doesn't answer any prayer
3.God isn't real so no prayer would ever get answered.
(if there are more options, I just didn't think of them.)
The first 2 choices say about the character of a God, he either chooses prayers, sometimes at a cost of a life, judging which is worth more of his time. And the second one while it may be confronted by claims - "He doesn't want to intertwine in our lives", suggests that he neglects people on a daily basis. Which in any case, should be child abuse. (I got sooo many warnings on other forums for that last sentence : P ) One who neglects the safety of others or just doesn't care isn't worth praying to.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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11-08-2012, 08:37 AM
RE: I'll pray for you...
So what's #3?

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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11-08-2012, 08:43 AM
RE: I'll pray for you...
I apologize, # 4 is sup post to be number three. I originally had four choices however 2 were simple reworded so I removed it. I'll edit my post now. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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11-08-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: I'll pray for you...
3. God is a drooling lobotomized mental patient who believes all his powers have been stripped away by aliens.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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11-08-2012, 03:40 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
Agnostic atheism is not a belief system. Laughat

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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19-12-2012, 06:27 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2012 06:30 AM by Vosur.)
RE: I'll pray for you...
Continuation of this debate.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Care to, sure. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid222984
Firstly, you said that I declared myself the winner "there", as in, in this thread. Secondly, nowhere in that post did I claim victory. Do you have such difficulties reading and comprehending the content of a simple post? Thirdly, I asked you to cite the post in which I've explicitly declared myself the winner, you weren't even able to show me a post in which I've done it implicitly.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Lastly, dont ask me to provide you external sources when you have been provided them, not only before but only a few posts ago here. If your gonna ask for external sources and I supply them, then you say I need to provide sources whilst not even addressing them and then say Im wrong because you ignore what Im posting, then fine your Mr Clever and Im a fucktard. Now you can believe what you want, but if you want me to take what you say in way seriously, you'll need to up your game some what.
(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  So, you can disagree with me on the subject, you can disagree with the wiki, the dictionary and the rest of them and thats fine, more power to you. What you dont get to do is ignore them or worse yet say they dont exist when I have to post them over and over again.
Since the sources you cited neither state that agnostic atheism is a belief system, nor support your argument that it is one, I can dismiss them without any worries. Agnostic atheism is not a set of mutually supportive beliefs, hence why the definition of "belief system" from Wikipedia adds zero value to your claim. There would be no need for me to repeat myself if you were able to accept the evidence that is right in front of you.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  If anything, agnostic atheism is a philosophical position. - Wiki says: The beliefs may be religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these. Philosopher Jonathan Glover says that beliefs are always a part of a belief system.
Belief =/= position

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Charitably, I could ascribe this all to a lack of understanding of the finer points of how english works it not being your native tongue, but I dont really belief its your english thats at fault, I really think your just being dishonest. Now, Im sorry that for some reason you find the idea that you have a belief system threatening or offensive or whatever, but thats not my problem and I dont feel compelled in anyway to butcher the english language to make you feel better.
It's funny that this is coming from someone whose English is worse than mine. With that said, there is no dishonesty on my part. You refuse to change your position that agnostic atheism is a belief system despite being shown the flaws in your arguments by several different people, making you the intellectually dishonest person.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  What "interrelated groups of beliefs" is agnostic atheism supposed to consist of?

Missed this.

Agnostism is a belief, atheism is a belief theyre interraleted in that they refer to the same fucking thing.
Your very own source (Wikipedia) disagrees with your unfounded assertions.

agnosticism
  1. The view that absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable, especially regarding knowledge not based on experience or perceivable phenomena.
  2. The view that the existence of God or of all deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable.
  3. Doubt, uncertainty, or scepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.
atheism
  • (rejection of belief): an explicit rejection of belief, with or without a denial that any deities exist (explicit atheism),
  • (absence of belief): an absence of belief in the existence of any deities (weak atheism or soft atheism),
  • (affirmative belief): an explicit belief that no gods exist (strong atheism or hard atheism).
Agnostic atheism is a form of weak atheism, hence why it is nonsensical to call it a belief.

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19-12-2012, 10:32 AM
RE: I'll pray for you...
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19-12-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: I'll pray for you...
(19-12-2012 06:27 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Continuation of this debate.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Care to, sure. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid222984
Firstly, you said that I declared myself the winner "there", as in, in this thread. Secondly, nowhere in that post did I claim victory. Do you have such difficulties reading and comprehending the content of a simple post? Thirdly, I asked you to cite the post in which I've explicitly declared myself the winner, you weren't even able to show me a post in which I've done it implicitly.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Lastly, dont ask me to provide you external sources when you have been provided them, not only before but only a few posts ago here. If your gonna ask for external sources and I supply them, then you say I need to provide sources whilst not even addressing them and then say Im wrong because you ignore what Im posting, then fine your Mr Clever and Im a fucktard. Now you can believe what you want, but if you want me to take what you say in way seriously, you'll need to up your game some what.
(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  So, you can disagree with me on the subject, you can disagree with the wiki, the dictionary and the rest of them and thats fine, more power to you. What you dont get to do is ignore them or worse yet say they dont exist when I have to post them over and over again.
Since the sources you cited neither state that agnostic atheism is a belief system, nor support your argument that it is one, I can dismiss them without any worries. Agnostic atheism is not a set of mutually supportive beliefs, hence why the definition of "belief system" from Wikipedia adds zero value to your claim. There would be no need for me to repeat myself if you were able to accept the evidence that is right in front of you.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  If anything, agnostic atheism is a philosophical position. - Wiki says: The beliefs may be religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these. Philosopher Jonathan Glover says that beliefs are always a part of a belief system.
Belief =/= position

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  Charitably, I could ascribe this all to a lack of understanding of the finer points of how english works it not being your native tongue, but I dont really belief its your english thats at fault, I really think your just being dishonest. Now, Im sorry that for some reason you find the idea that you have a belief system threatening or offensive or whatever, but thats not my problem and I dont feel compelled in anyway to butcher the english language to make you feel better.
It's funny that this is coming from someone whose English is worse than mine. With that said, there is no dishonesty on my part. You refuse to change your position that agnostic atheism is a belief system despite being shown the flaws in your arguments by several different people, making you the intellectually dishonest person.

(18-12-2012 08:23 PM)Humakt Wrote:  What "interrelated groups of beliefs" is agnostic atheism supposed to consist of?

Missed this.

Agnostism is a belief, atheism is a belief theyre interraleted in that they refer to the same fucking thing.
Your very own source (Wikipedia) disagrees with your unfounded assertions.

agnosticism
  1. The view that absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable, especially regarding knowledge not based on experience or perceivable phenomena.
  2. The view that the existence of God or of all deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable.
  3. Doubt, uncertainty, or scepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.
atheism
  • (rejection of belief): an explicit rejection of belief, with or without a denial that any deities exist (explicit atheism),
  • (absence of belief): an absence of belief in the existence of any deities (weak atheism or soft atheism),
  • (affirmative belief): an explicit belief that no gods exist (strong atheism or hard atheism).
Agnostic atheism is a form of weak atheism, hence why it is nonsensical to call it a belief.

Do you use the word I'm the winner, no. Do you assume an air of having won, yes.

Belief =/= position: who's making somantic distinctions now. The quote specifically cites beliefs argue with the wiki not me on that.

"The beliefs may be religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these. Philosopher Jonathan Glover says that beliefs are always a part of a belief system."


"It's funny that this is coming from someone whose English is worse than
mine. With that said, there is no dishonesty on my part. You refuse to
change your position that agnostic atheism is a belief system despite
being shown the flaws in your arguments by several different people,
making you the intellectually dishonest person."

More of you not winning here, I refuse to change my position because despite you claiming to have shown that these words dont mean what they mean, I'll still trust the dictionary over you. Why you continue to assert that a system of beliefs is not a belief system is beyond me, is it that you believe beliefs are purely an article of faith?, think that belief is a dirty word, belief can describe faith there is no doubt, but one can believe in the validity of science, that night follows day etc.

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
I like also how, 2 is now several, frankly you and Logica are hardly the fonts of wisdom on which Im going to base any kind of view on.
Your very own source (Wikipedia) disagrees with your unfounded assertions. - No it doesnt, maybe you dont belief what you say, but I certainly believe that agnostism is the correct position for me. I believe it to be a proposition or premise that holds true.

agnosticism

  1. The view that absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable, especially regarding knowledge not based on experience or perceivable phenomena.
  2. The view that the existence of God or of all deities is unknown, unknowable, unproven, or unprovable.
  3. Doubt, uncertainty, or scepticism regarding the existence of a god or gods.
atheism
  • (rejection of belief): an explicit rejection of belief, with or without a denial that any deities exist (explicit atheism),
  • (absence of belief): an absence of belief in the existence of any deities (weak atheism or soft atheism),
  • (affirmative belief): an explicit belief that no gods exist (strong atheism or hard atheism).
Agnostic atheism is a form of weak atheism, hence why it is nonsensical to call it a belief.

Do you think that agnostic atheism is a proposition or premise that is true? If you do its your belief that its correct. Therefore it is not nonsensical to say you believe atheism to be right.
Anyway, this hardly qualifies as a debate, this is just nonsense, if you dont like the word belief as a descriptor for what you you believe, or if you dont believe anything then super dont use the term, but trying to say that its incorrect to use it in that context, is just silly.
If you've something constructive to add, then by all means do so, but Im through with having to post the same stuff over and over again.
I'll leave you with a link to http://spaz.ca/aaron/school/science.html
or science as a belief system as maybe it'll rile you and bum chum up so much you'll have a stroke and I can get on with something more productive.

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