I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
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01-05-2015, 09:35 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
I haven't lost faith in the human species, and I discourage others do so because it perpetuates the issue. Giving up destroys any chances of change and makes that looming dystopia a self-fulfilling prophecy. The state of the United States is disappointing, yes. But whenever I think of how bad it is now, I look back to eras similar to this one and take note of how cyclical this whole thing is. Our terms of governance and morality are malleable and change constantly. Often times we, the ordinary people, are caught in the middle as pawns or stepping stones -- sometimes both -- just as a few participate in a gamble for power.

But if you want it to change, or at least take a step towards a change, vote and donate to Bernie Sanders. He just announced his running on an independent ticket, and he's going to need all the help he can get to win.

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01-05-2015, 09:52 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(01-05-2015 09:35 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  But if you want it to change, or at least take a step towards a change, vote and donate to Bernie Sanders. He just announced his running on an independent ticket, and he's going to need all the help he can get to win.


Unfortunately, that's simply not going to work. Our electoral system, being first past the post, will always inevitably devolve into a 2 party system. Once you're down to just 2 parties, strategic voting kicks in; people don't vote for who they want most, but rather vote against who they want least. If Bernie Sanders actually manages to get enough of a following to actually be an alternative to the Democrats, they'll start to get flooded with money from the Republicans in an effort to split Liberal and Unaffiliated voters and ensure a Republican victory.

The Founding Fathers had some great ideas, but statisticians they were not.

The first hurdle before you can fix the system is to ensure you can elect people who want to fix the system, and to do that we need to get money out of elections by passing a Constitutional Amendment to overturn the Citizens United case and allow for elections to be free of outside manipulation (i.e. legal bribery in the form of unlimited campaign donations). I want a government that's not for sale, how about you?



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01-05-2015, 10:58 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(01-05-2015 09:52 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(01-05-2015 09:35 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  But if you want it to change, or at least take a step towards a change, vote and donate to Bernie Sanders. He just announced his running on an independent ticket, and he's going to need all the help he can get to win.


Unfortunately, that's simply not going to work. Our electoral system, being first past the post, will always inevitably devolve into a 2 party system. Once you're down to just 2 parties, strategic voting kicks in; people don't vote for who they want most, but rather vote against who they want least. If Bernie Sanders actually manages to get enough of a following to actually be an alternative to the Democrats, they'll start to get flooded with money from the Republicans in an effort to split Liberal and Unaffiliated voters and ensure a Republican victory.

The Founding Fathers had some great ideas, but statisticians they were not.

The first hurdle before you can fix the system is to ensure you can elect people who want to fix the system, and to do that we need to get money out of elections by passing a Constitutional Amendment to overturn the Citizens United case and allow for elections to be free of outside manipulation (i.e. legal bribery in the form of unlimited campaign donations). I want a government that's not for sale, how about you?

Bernie Sanders made 1.5 million in less than 24 hours from private donations. It's a shot. And Bernie Sanders getting elected is about just as likely as a congress or Supreme Court that actually represents the peoples' interest.

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02-05-2015, 06:31 AM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-05-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

I'm fine with lobbying. You should be able to lobby your government. However money is not speech, and the First Amendment shouldn't be used to sell our politicians to the highest bidder.

I want the government to be filled with public servants, not private lapdogs.

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02-05-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

Corporate lobbying needs to stop.

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02-05-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 12:18 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

Corporate lobbying needs to stop.

It needs to be drastically curtailed, but they should have a seat at the table; its just the size and position of their seat shouldn't be decided by how much they've donated to a candidate's campaign. Corporations can be large and their decisions can affect a lot of people, and we could potentially be just as worse off if we were to entirely ignore them.

But corporations having more rights than people with zero accountability? Yeah, that shit needs to end pronto. We probably wound't be setting ourselves up for another economic crash of the Wall Street assholes behind the last fall spent the rest of their lives behind bars on Rikers Island.

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02-05-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 12:27 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It needs to be drastically curtailed, but they should have a seat at the table; its just the size and position of their seat shouldn't be decided by how much they've donated to a candidate's campaign. Corporations can be large and their decisions can affect a lot of people, and we could potentially be just as worse off if we were to entirely ignore them.

But corporations having more rights than people with zero accountability? Yeah, that shit needs to end pronto. We probably wound't be setting ourselves up for another economic crash of the Wall Street assholes behind the last fall spent the rest of their lives behind bars on Rikers Island.

Unfortunately if you allow these business to have a voice whispering in a politicians' ear, they will control them for their own interest. That's the entire point to a business, and that's how the regulations put in place prior to the 80s were removed.

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02-05-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

Begin by ceasing to call it "lobbying" and call it what it is: Bribery.

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02-05-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
To take the title of this thread: What made you have faith in humanity in the first place?

We're still territorial apes. Problem is, apes shouldn't have access to nukes.
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