I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
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02-05-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 12:38 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 12:27 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It needs to be drastically curtailed, but they should have a seat at the table; its just the size and position of their seat shouldn't be decided by how much they've donated to a candidate's campaign. Corporations can be large and their decisions can affect a lot of people, and we could potentially be just as worse off if we were to entirely ignore them.

But corporations having more rights than people with zero accountability? Yeah, that shit needs to end pronto. We probably wound't be setting ourselves up for another economic crash of the Wall Street assholes behind the last fall spent the rest of their lives behind bars on Rikers Island.

Unfortunately if you allow these business to have a voice whispering in a politicians' ear, they will control them for their own interest. That's the entire point to a business, and that's how the regulations put in place prior to the 80s were removed.

(02-05-2015 01:29 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

Begin by ceasing to call it "lobbying" and call it what it is: Bribery.


My only point being, is when public policy can affect a business, they have every right to have a seat at the table and have their voice heard. It doesn't mean they get their way, but they do get to be part of the debate.

What we need to do is take away the undue power their voice has because of their Supreme Court granted right to legally bribe politicians in the form of unlimited campaign contributions, and the only way to overturn a Supreme Court ruling is with either a new ruling in the reverse or a change to the Constitution (i.e. a new Amendment) that overrides their ruling.

Everyone has the right to petition their government for redress of grievance, or in other words, to lobby their government. Nobody should be allowed to buy their government, and money should never have the same protections as speech.

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02-05-2015, 04:18 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2015 08:06 PM by Kaneda.)
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 01:55 PM)abaris Wrote:  To take the title of this thread: What made you have faith in humanity in the first place?

I grew up in the glorious period of prosperity known as the 1990s, when innovation was booming and Cold War paranoia was receding. Our schools taught us the "America - Fuck Yeah!" version of history and lectured us on how much better things had become because of the enlightenment, the agriculatural revolution, the industrial revolution, advances in medicine and sanitation, the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, environmentalism and family ethics. They created the impression that as a society we were moving up, and up and up.

It was as though after 9-11 a switch was flipped on our collective sense of morale, with growing opposition to the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act, a laundry list of scandals surfacing from the sitting administration and consumer excess and inflation that culminated in the crash of 2008. Those of us too naive to know how government and campaign funding worked probably expected a reversal on the bad policies of the administration with the arrival of our Lord and Savior, Barack Obama, but so far I'm just seeing as much deception, corruption and fiscal irresponsibility as ever.

These past several years have made me very cynical about humans' capacity to learn from their mistakes and advance to a higher level of coexistence. The future is looking like a retread of internal tyranny and abuse for a majority of the people that has plagued us for thousands of years, but with more possessions and bigger weapons.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." -Julius Caesar
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02-05-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 04:18 PM)Kaneda Wrote:  These past several years have made me very cynical about humans' capacity to learn from their mistakes and advance to a higher level of coexistence. The future is looking like a retread of internal tyranny and abuse for a majority of the people that has plagued us for thousands of years, but with more possessions and bigger weapons.

So welcome to reality, I would say. I lived through the years of who's got the bigger nuclear dick. Things haven't changed much, only the enemies. Seems like having enemies is supposed to be a defining feature of humanity.

As I said, just another breed of great apes. Though the "great" is up for debate.
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02-05-2015, 04:48 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 04:47 PM)abaris Wrote:  So welcome to reality, I would say. I lived through the years of who's got the bigger nuclear dick. Things haven't changed much, only the enemies. Seems like having enemies is supposed to be a defining feature of humanity.

As I said, just another breed of great apes. Though the "great" is up for debate.

That's because conflict is a catalyst for change, which is the foundation for evolution.

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02-05-2015, 06:24 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 12:18 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

Corporate lobbying needs to stop.

The big problem is campaign financing.

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02-05-2015, 06:24 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 12:18 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Lobbying needs to stop. Period.

Corporate lobbying needs to stop.

Corporate campaign donations need to stop.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-05-2015, 06:39 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 06:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  The big problem is campaign financing.

It is one of the numerous big problems. Corporate lobbying got Citizens United's agenda passed to begin with.

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02-05-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 06:39 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  The big problem is campaign financing.

It is one of the numerous big problems. Corporate lobbying got Citizens United's agenda passed to begin with.

Consider the idea that every candidate in a campaign has precisely the same funding.
Imagine all the people who could run. We would get a much better class of candidates.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-05-2015, 07:53 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 07:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  Consider the idea that every candidate in a campaign has precisely the same funding.
Imagine all the people who could run. We would get a much better class of candidates.

As long as corporations can supply politicians with "favors" in exchange for legislation, it matters not who can run. Both are equally big issues and have to be dealt with.

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02-05-2015, 08:12 PM
RE: I'm Starting to Lose Faith In our Species
(02-05-2015 07:53 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 07:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  Consider the idea that every candidate in a campaign has precisely the same funding.
Imagine all the people who could run. We would get a much better class of candidates.

As long as corporations can supply politicians with "favors" in exchange for legislation, it matters not who can run. Both are equally big issues and have to be dealt with.

There main avenue is campaign contributions, I believe.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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